Announcer  00:07
Welcome to Tire Tracks, a Banyan Technology podcast driving the logistics industry. And now your host, Patrick Escolas.

Patrick Escolas  00:15
Hey, I'm Patrick Escolas with another episode of Tire Tracks, a Banyan Technology podcast. And with me here, I'm happy to have Trey Griggs of the BETA Consulting Group, as well as the host of his own Standing Out podcast. Hey, Trey, how you doing today?

Trey Griggs  00:30
I'm doing well. It's nice to be with you, Patrick.

Patrick Escolas  00:33
It's very nice to meet you. Let me do my little, you know, electronic handshake there that probably was as corny as it felt. 

Trey Griggs  00:39
Fist bump. 

Patrick Escolas  00:40
I like the fist bump better. Yeah, right into it. There we go. So Trey, thanks for joining us today. So, just to kind of get into this a little bit, we were just talking about the benefits and kind of the transitions of being your own boss, and you know, how to how to deal with that guy. But what is it that you're doing now? What is the BETA Consulting Group? Give me Give me a little bit about that. And then of course, I'm gonna ask about the podcast, too. But, maybe they're connected?

Trey Griggs  01:07
Yeah, well, it is a pleasure to be here. And again, excited for what you guys have accomplished at Banyan. And I've been following you guys for a long time. And so glad you guys started a podcast. So, kudos to you on that. And just thank you for asking him to be a part of the show. As far as when we do at BETA... You know, I mean, you're familiar with this, you know, how organizations often struggle to hit revenue goals. When it happens, you know, a lot of times they struggle with tough conversations they have to have sometimes we have to let people go, morale tends to go down, turnover tends to go up. All those things are all negative. And so, as a 12-year sales and marketing veteran in logistics industry, I assess and improve an organization's sales and marketing outcomes, so they can exceed their revenue targets. So if somebody asks, what do you do, I'm a sales and marketing consultant specifically for logistics companies, freight brokerages, technology companies within the logistics space.

Patrick Escolas  01:55
And how that come about? Is this is something you had been doing for a long time and finally decided to do it on your own, or you were you were in the meat and potatoes of it on the other side? What, how does that you know, you woke up the other day and you go, man, this is this is what I'm doing.

Trey Griggs  02:10
Yeah, I wish that there was that much clarity, but that's not how it worked out. It was quite the evolution. I started my career in logistics at DAT back in 2012 as an inside sales rep selling to mainly carriers and some new brokers the basic load board stuff. And spent four years with them got promoted. Along the way, 18 months into the enterprise team started working with freight brokerages, larger freight brokerages organizations, and just started to see the larger I guess, you know, pie that's out there a lot larger puzzle that's out there in terms of logistics and supply chain. After four years, I thought that I could do better doing something else, as a young sales guy that did not handle challenges, and so I I left and I went to a TMS. I got to see that side of the business, I left there and went to Trucker Tools, got to see the tracking side of the business. I then went to HUB Tech for six months. And then I went to lean for about 20 months on the staffing side of the business. So I look back on my career, and I've had a lot of diverse opportunities. I see that as actually helping me quite a bit now where I can help out in many ways. But one thing I noticed along the way is when I was a DAT, they had great marketing in place, they had great sales training, and I thrived. When I went to other organizations that didn't have that I struggled. There were times where as a sales rep, instead of selling, I was building processes that should have already been built. I was creating a slide deck to be effective in that way, I was training a new rep, instead of a leader train the new rep. I was making changes to the CRM to make automations and workflows better, which are all important things. But, as a salesperson, I'd like for those to already be done, so that I can just do my job and be effective. And I just noticed a trend that a lot of companies really struggle getting their sales and marketing from a foundational level in place to allow their people to really thrive and be successful. And here's the analogy that I'll use. I'm a Chiefs fan, I'm a Patrick Mahomes fan. 

Patrick Escolas  03:59
That's really easy to be coming from a guy...

Trey Griggs  04:02
Yeah, it wasn't 20 years ago! Listen, was it 20 years ago, alright? 

Patrick Escolas  04:06
Whatever you say!

Trey Griggs  04:07
There was a 50-year stretch before, between between Super Bowl wins. But in that stretch, we only won three playoff games. So think about that. Patrick Mahomes has already won like, nine. 

Patrick Escolas  04:17
Yeah, when you guys are done with him, send him to Cleveland. 

Trey Griggs  04:20
That's right, exactly. 

Patrick Escolas  04:21
We'll take the old Patrick Mahomes, that's fine. Still be better than most of our... 

Trey Griggs  04:24
You'll take the 40-year old we'll give him give him another, give him a shot. That's what my point, my point of the analogy was this:  Is Patrick Mahomes the same Patrick Mahomes that we know of today, if he got drafted by the New York Jets? And, I don't think so. The New York Jets have gone through coaches (they have in the past). It's like in the last five years. They've had just a dysfunctional organization, overall. They haven't won in a long time. They didn't really have an identity. Like you you put a great player like Patrick Mahomes in that, is he still great? Or as part of Patrick Mahomes' greatness the fact that he's in the Chiefs offense with Andy Reid? I think it's both. So, from a sales perspective, you get a really high-performing sales guy to come into organization, and you don't have a good structure in place or good processes? That guy's gonna get frustrated, that guy is gonna leave, they're gonna get burnt-out. It's like, I'm here to sell. you know, you're not ready for it. So, that's what I do.

Patrick Escolas  05:18
As you were, as you were talking about it earlier, I'm, I'm in sales myself, and it's not just because I have such a great haircut. But it's...

Trey Griggs  05:26
You got a solid beard. The beard a solid. 

Patrick Escolas  05:29
As you get older, the hair just migrates down, it's weird. My wife tells me I should have never had hair in the first place. It's weird to tell her I had hair longer than I haven't, without feeling emotionally broken about it. But no, I've been in organizations where there isn't a great marketing team or there isn't a great sales process -- and you do feel like you're underwater. Or, like you said, you spend your time training the other staff without getting a different title or a pay compensation for those non-selling out those selling hours that you're wasting on non-selling time. Not to not to pitch too much here, and not just because they set this up for me, but Banyan's marketing team is one of the first where I came in, and we had more leads than we knew what to do. It was one of those situations where I barely have to prospect...

Trey Griggs  06:20
What a great problem to have! 

Patrick Escolas  06:22
Oh, my God! I have never -- been in about four or five different organizations and this has never happened. And I'm like, is this real? This is how I drew this out. I thought I'm just supposed to be hating marketing, because they're not giving me enough leads. And they're supposed to hate me, because we're not doing enough with leads. And that's the eternal struggle of sales and marketing. No, apparently, we can live together peacefully, which, like I said that wish...

Trey Griggs  06:47
They should! Sales and Marketing is really one team, in my opinion. It's not two teams, it's one team working together and distinct ways to drive revenue. And that's what I try to communicate to my prospects my customers is this has to work together. And in my past organizations, you know, I went into situations where they didn't have any automation or workflow setup in CRM, they didn't have an agreement platform to make it easy to send out and have a customer sign an agreement to get started. They didn't have marketing collateral, the slide deck wasn't good at all. And when you start to build those things out, what we were able to do was take the sales reps from closing one or two deals a month, that were roughly $5,000 to $7,500, in monthly recurring revenue to somewhere between eight to 10, even up to 15 deals a month, consistently, with higher deal values, because they were spending more time with customers and prospects and less time all the other crap that salespeople often have to do. Now we build that structure... 

Patrick Escolas  07:40
Process and make the content and just go and put a new name on it, put a new number on it and spit it out.

Trey Griggs  07:46
Exactly. And you start to build a brand where the customers that do come in, the prospects that do come in are educated about what you do. And they have a higher level of intent to buy, because they understand that your solution can solve their problem. That's the function of marketing, is to get those questions out of the way. So that when they come to a salesperson, they can identify exactly what the needs are and close them.

Patrick Escolas  08:06
Now, is that something that it starts at the marketing level and then trickles down to the sales? Because like you're saying about implementing automation and something like that? How does that how does that happen? There's just do you look at they don't have automation right now? Or, do you go in and look at the tools they have? Or It depends on what you're walking into?

Trey Griggs  08:24
In my opinion, it all starts with the messaging. It all starts with the messaging. Because the messaging that you agree upon as an organization that everybody starts speaking the same language becomes really powerful. And what I rely on is the power of story. So I'm a story brand certified guy -- I help clients create that story brand framework, which let me just put it this way: You know how it's so easy to get distracted with your phone or, you know, something pops up on your TV or computer or something? It's really easy to just get distracted in life and daydream...

Patrick Escolas  08:55
Shiny, new shiny thing. 

Trey Griggs  08:57
Especially for some of us sales guys. This is really easy to get distracted. But, it's easy to get distracted in life. But think about this: If you go to a really good movie -- did you go see Top Gun Maverick? 

Patrick Escolas  09:05
I loved it. 

Trey Griggs  09:06
Yeah, me too. So let's just use that, for example. 

 Patrick Escolas  09:08
So entertaining!

Trey Griggs  09:09
You go to Top Gun Maverick, you don't even remember that you have a phone for two hours. You don't think about what you're going to eat afterwards. You don't think about what's going to happen that night or how bad that meeting was yesterday at work. You don't think about any of that,because the story, the power of the story, and the message has really captivated your mind and drawn you in to where you want to be a part of it. I mean, I've watched Top Gun Maverick, Maverick probably 10 times -- we own it, now. And I've watched it many times and I feel the same way every time -- even though I know what's going to happen. It's the power of story. Hunger Games will be the same way. Harry Potter, the same way. We've watched his movies over and over. We know what's going to happen. But for some reason, it draws us in, makes us want to be a part of it, and blocks everything else out. Is that not what you want your prospects to feel when they're working with you? 

Patrick Escolas  10:00
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But how do I make a Banyan Top Gun movie? You know?

Trey Griggs  10:07
It doesn't have to be a Top Gun movie, right? Do you really? 

Patrick Escolas  10:10
Yeah. So what is -- I know, I understand exactly what you're saying, I can't get enough stories. I consume media books, anything. And I love that feeling of being pulled in. How do you do that for something on the marketing product sales side, you know? If it's logistics or manufacturing, this isn't hot, sexy jet fighters, you know, topless volleyball scenes. This is, hey, we can take your rates this way or we can bring lean lean distribution or logistics into your workflow. What, how do you, how do you come up with a story that's really going to grab people at that point?

Trey Griggs  10:48
Because it's not about the fighter jets, It's not about the details of the movie -- even though those things are great, right? It's the fundamental elements of story that you use to then draw your prospects in. And it really starts with simply you need to have a character and that character is your prospect, okay? So you have a character who has a want, do you know what your prospects actually want, right? They have a problem that's keeping them from getting that want. And then, you position your company as the guide -- not the hero -- as the guide who helps them get what they want. So you're putting together... 

Patrick Escolas  11:22
You're leading the montage...

Trey Griggs  11:24
Correct!

Patrick Escolas  11:24
Training montage, okay.

Trey Griggs  11:26
You create a plan, a real simple plan for them to follow. You call them to action, you share with them a picture of what it's going to look like when they succeed, you share with them a picture of what it could look like if they don't. 

Patrick Escolas  11:38
And you make that Mickey rope...

Trey Griggs  11:39
And when you incorporate those elements, people want to participate in that way. Think about like this. So, I'll use this example -- this will be really easy for everybody to understand. If we do use a movie like Hunger Games, who's the character? Katniss Everdeen. What does she want? She wants peace, and no problems from the Capitol. What's the problem? The Capitol is overbearing, and she's now in this thing called the Hunger Games, where she has to fight to the death to try to preserve some of these things or influence some of the things. She needs a guide. Who's the guide? Haymitch? Why is he the guide? Because he won the hunger games before. So he has empathy with her, and he has authority to tell her how to do it. So, he provides a plan. What does she need to do? She needs to get sponsors, she needs to become friendly, she's become less of a jerk, right? She needs to stick to her strengths, which is the bow and arrow.

Patrick Escolas  12:25
Do you, do you play Hunger Games and go through this? Is this part of the process when you're consulting? 

Trey Griggs  12:30
For anybody who's listening to this, you probably have story ruined for the rest of your life. You're gonna watch every movie now going, okay, that's the character. Alright, cool. That's the problem. Okay, where's the guide? Okay, that person is the guide. Because that's how a good story works.

Patrick Escolas  12:42
My wife already can't watch movies with me because I'm one of those that halfway through, you're like, oh, that's the bad guy, and this is what's going to happen. And she's like, but no, I did. I just rewatched Hunger Games series with my, my wife for our baby moon. And it's funny, you going through this? And like, yes, yes. Dang. Dang it, Trey. Yes... It's true.  You're absolutely hitting those! 

Trey Griggs  13:02
So, what do we do? So, I work with clients to help them create that script, essentially using the elements of story. And then, that type of language, that type of messaging, then, permeates their website, their social media content, their slide deck, their customer testimonials, their email sequences. They're all everything that they do as an organization, now, their customer service their operations, they need to be speaking the same story. And then, that can draws their prospects in want to be a part of what they're doing. Everybody wants to be drawn into a story as a hero. If you're the story, I don't need to be a part of your story, then. You got your, like you, if you're the guide, though, I might need that. I might need your help to get where I want to go.

Patrick Escolas  13:41
I like that. I like that. And you mentioned and the social media aspect of it. So, how did you how do you utilize social media properly? And I don't want to say something as boring as you know, manufacturing or logistics or transportation or shipping. But I mean, when when day in and day out, everybody's pointing TikTok, Instagram reels. How, how am I supposed to monetize that? Obviously, every executive is going alright, show me the ROI. But, is that even possible? What do you, that's got to be such a big -- hey, how do we use TikTok to make more leads come to us? How do you deal with that? Or do you?

Trey Griggs  14:22
Well, here's the here's the deal. I don't know about humans in general. Okay. Humans want to be entertained, educated, or inspired. Entertained, educated or inspired. Think about your personal practices on social media. Why do you watch Netflix? Why do you scroll through Twitter? Why are you on TikTok? You want to be entertained. You want to learn something, you know? You might do that on Twitter or whatever, or you want to be inspired to be better, right? Those are three fundamental things that people are asking for. So as a business, your your social media presence doesn't have to be all about your business. It can be about entertaining people, so they're drawn to you to learn about your business. It could be education and thought leadership -- that's a big thing that people focus on is, hey, if I've got a lot of experience, let me talk about that experience, and, and follow. One of my favorite follows on on Twitter is car dealer guy, Car Dealership guy, I think is his name. 

Patrick Escolas  15:16
Okay. 

Trey Griggs  15:17
And he talks a lot about the ins and outs of a car dealership because he's ran them for years. And so he talks about, hey, it's a good time to buy a used car, and here's why, and here's what you need to look for, and here's what you need to say. Like I'm following him, especially if I'm interested in a car. 

Patrick Escolas  15:29
Yeah.

Trey Griggs  15:30
To try to learn. But there's all different kinds of reasons that you might be on social media. But if you're looking to entertain, educate, or inspire or some combination of the three, then you will attract a crowd. And when you have that crowds attention, that's when you then can talk a little about the problems that you solve.

Patrick Escolas  15:47
So, you're not actually making commercials per se, you're really...

Trey Griggs  15:51
You can, but they need to entertain, educate or inspire. Like, you can talk about your business effects. One of the best commercials all time -- and you might remember this commercial, right? Maybe I mean, you don't shave a whole lot, but you do up here, is the commercial that launched Dollar Shave Club. Did you ever see that commercial, launch Dollar Shave Club?

Patrick Escolas  16:08
What happens...

Trey Griggs  16:10
It's on YouTube, okay, and anybody can go and see it. Alright, Dollar Shave Club, and its original commercial. The guy who found, his name is Mike, the guy who founded Dollar Shave Club, he did this really kind of funny, witty video in a warehouse, where he was basically saying, we send you blades for $1 a month. Are they any good? Yeah, they're good. And I don't know, it's just it was just such a just him walk him walking through him walking through exactly. It was talking about his company. It was very educational. It was humorous. And from that one video alone, they got 12,000 orders within 24 hours. Damn, that video!

Patrick Escolas  16:45
I didn't know about the effectiveness of that. That was just one big...okay. 

Trey Griggs  16:49
Because they invited people into a story! You, I'm the character, I'm the customer, I'm the character okay? I want to look good, so I gotta shave my face. Or the problem is, razors are super expensive, and I don't make a lot of money. All right, I need a guide who can help me. This guy Mike comes along and says, hey, I can send you razors for $1, if you simply sign up on our website and give us your information. Simple plan. Here's the call to action, click this button and sign up for Dollar Shave Club. It's all the elements of story. And it was in that commercial. And it was awesome. It entertained and educated me. Didn't really inspire but didn't have to. But it did those other two. Like, that's how, that's how social media can be really impactful -- is, if you're looking at accomplish those three things, one of those one or two of those three things? And then through that, including elements of story.

Patrick Escolas  17:38
Is it possible to track an ROI through through these kinds of uses of marketing? Or is it something that you lean away from?

Trey Griggs  17:46
In some ways it is. So, for example, if your call to action on social media is click this link to sign up today for my newsletter. That's, that's a common one we see on social media. Click this link to sign up for my newsletter. Well, you can see how many clicks to that website come from that social media platforms. Absolutely, you can see and you can track those types of things. But not all of it is going to have direct attribution. Let me explain it this way. We'll just use Banyan for example. Let's say that I go to TIA and I'm sitting in the back of the room and somebody from Banyan comes up there and gives a little message. I'm like, oh, that's kind of interesting. That's cool. And then I leave, and I go to lunch, I sit down with a guy and they talk about technology they're using like, yeah, we use Banyan, it's really great. You guys should check it. Oh, that's interesting, that's cool. How'd you guys get started with them? Well, I read this PDF that they sent over, I'll just email it to you real quick. So the guy emails me a PDF, and I read it and go, oh, this really makes a lot of sense. And then I go to the website to learn a little bit more. And then I click on a button that scheduled a demo. Now which one of those things led me to you? 

Patrick Escolas  18:42
Fair point. 

Trey Griggs  18:43
if you said, Hey, how'd you find this? I might say, well, I saw on your website, or I might say, I read this PDF, or I might say I heard this guy TA, which when you get to give credit to and you can't does, it doesn't matter. You can't give credit to all of them. But all of them played a role. They all played a role in getting me to you. And that's what people have to understand about marketing is that in some ways, you can give direct attribution to what marketing does for sales, but sometimes you can't, but it's all working together to accomplish his goal, which is brand awareness, you need to become somebody who's known and trusted, and drive revenue, you need to be able to convert people to become customers based upon your solution. And that's what marketing is supposed to do. And all of that works together, but not all of its gonna get credit. And that's the hard part is that somebody who's only thinking ROI, you might be disappointed if that's how you only think his marketing works as a network working together.

Patrick Escolas  19:38
So, So would you tell a marketing team that to be... to less focus on where it came from and the fact that it came there and it all? In or something like that? Or how would you feel that back then?

Trey Griggs  19:50
Would not go that far. Definitely wouldn't go that far. Because, when you find something that works, you want to throw some gas on the fire. Exactly. And so, one of the biggest mistakes that companies make because they don't ask, how did you hear about us? And they don't make it multipronged. So for example, you might say, Hey, how did you hear about Banyan? Oh, I heard about your PDF. Oh, really? How'd you how'd you get the PDF? And you might just follow that trail a little bit and find out. What actually went into this? Oh, you were a TIA. Cool -- check. Awesome. Went to our website? Yeah -- check. And there you go. Okay, our website, this PDF, obviously made an impact. And we were at TIA -- that made sense. I'm gonna give credit to those three for this person coming in. You just have to ask the questions.

Patrick Escolas  20:30
Yeah. 'Cuz how rare is it gonna be that just one, single magic bullet brought them in?

Trey Griggs  20:35
Incredibly rare. Unless, unless it's a customer referral, right? Customer referral is the most powerful form of marketing there is, because...

Patrick Escolas  20:44
We don't get to control the most those anyways.

Trey Griggs  20:46
You don't? Well, you you don't directly. But again, that's where I like to create customer testimonial videos, because you are, you're harnessing the power of a customer. Some of them I might be like, I know Tommy. Yeah. Wow, he's been okay, cool. This is powerful. So you can harness it a little bit. But I mean, outside of that, most customers need multiple reasons to, to act on what you're doing.

Patrick Escolas  21:09
All right. I like that. I, I appreciate that. And like I said, especially now where I enjoy marketing as a part of my team, instead of being, you know, confrontational with them at all times. You know, which is the natural order of things.

Trey Griggs  21:23
And think about this from a marketing perspective -- where should you get the best information for marketing collateral? From your sales team! They're talking to prospects, what's working? What, why do people say yes? Why did they say no, right?

Patrick Escolas  21:36
I have a marketing team that shares a wall with us. And literally about every time they're about to type something, they go, hey, if I was about to say this, does that make sense? And a lot of times, like, yeah, that's it. Or sometimes we go like...

Trey Griggs  21:47
No, that's not it.

Patrick Escolas  21:49
Don't or don't promise that -- we can't do that. 

Trey Griggs  21:53
Right... 

Patrick Escolas  21:54
They'll come after us!

Trey Griggs  21:55
So, if you have your story brand, and your team is working together, you're able to create content that overcomes objections. Like, if I'm a sales guy, I definitely want a video that's going to overcome an objection that I hear over and over and over again. But maybe the only way that video gets made is if I tell the marketing team, I'm hearing this objection over and over and over again. Okay, you know, and that's where the teams really need to work together.

Patrick Escolas  22:14
Oh, I like that. That makes a lot of sense. Now, that's, that's what you're doing on the BETA side, BETA Consulting. What's, what's the standing out podcast about? How... 

Trey Griggs  22:22
Yeah, so... 

Patrick Escolas  22:23
How are you standing out, Trey?

Trey Griggs  22:25
Well, this, this helps a little bit, I guess? Now, there's, there's several ways I think, obviously, the way you treat people probably matters the most. But the reason why I chose this podcast, and I've got three podcasts, by the way, just just let you know. But the one that, well, I don't know, I don't know what people know about most. I'll just share them all with you. 

Patrick Escolas  22:42
Yeah -- I was gonn say. Come on, hit them all here. 

Trey Griggs  22:44
So Standing Out was a daily podcast last year about sales marketing leadership. This year, it's only two days a week. I pulled back just a little bit to focus on a few other things. But what I'm doing is, I'm talking to executives who have great stories to tell, oftentimes, their journey. And then we dig into something that has to do with sales, marketing and or leadership, because I think those are the three most impactful topics to discuss when you're wanting to promote a business, in sales, marketing leadership. And so we talked about that we have great guests on a lot of fun. And that's, that's been a real, real pleasure for me. I love podcasting, I love talking to people, I love hearing stories. And I really enjoy being the host, because I just get to ask the questions, tee it up, and let them knock it out of the park.

Patrick Escolas  23:29
And I'm doing so I'm letting you talk. That's, uh, you're, you're doing the job for me. That's great.

Trey Griggs  23:32
Exactly. And as a host, you know, if you tee it up and let them hit the park, everybody wins. And so, I enjoy doing that. I'm on my way to becoming the Jimmy Fallon of transportation. That's my end goal in all this.

Patrick Escolas  23:42
So so you'll play that guitar with your guests?

Trey Griggs  23:46
Yes, 100%! And games, and skits, all kinds of stuff. Yeah, we'll have a good time. So, that's, if I had to pick anything at all, that's, that's the vision for the future is gonna be the Jimmy Fallon of transportation. Live shows at trade shows, you know, live events. I did a live podcast in November and that was really fun. And now I'm starting to get asked to come and do a live episode on stage at TMSA, for example, or very possibly at Banyan's user conference where there's like that. So, that's been really fun.

Patrick Escolas  24:12
Will you wear the cowboy hat when you do that?

Trey Griggs  24:15
It, for the right price? Absolutely! Absolutely, I will. Yeah, I love wearing the cowboy hat when I can. But I also have to, I gotta keep this in mind a little bit. So it...

Patrick Escolas  24:26
Got to put it back, put it back a little, you know, a little...

Trey Griggs  24:28
No, wear the hat and I can take it off. This hat actually works pretty well, where it actually doesn't mess up my hair at all. So that's...

Patrick Escolas  24:33
Right. It's what you put pretty much that ends right into. 

Trey Griggs  24:36
Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much that's how it works. So that's the one podcast is Standing Out. The other one that actually started three years ago, it's called Word on the Street. It's on Fridays at noon, and it's a party. There's 10 of us up to 10 of us every week on the show. And we talk about transportation, we talked about politics, we talked about religion, we talked about sports, pop culture, we have a special guest every week. We spend some time with that guest talking about what they do specifically. So for example, tomorrow or coming up in a couple of days or whenever this airs, we're gonna have Pam Simon from connective. We're gonna talk about the Manifest show. I have different tech vendors that come on, I've got, you know, Lauren Metzen from 123 Load boards going to be coming on really soon. Don Salvucci, Fabio from Greenscreens and several others. 

Patrick Escolas  25:17
Yup.

Trey Griggs  25:18
So we have a we have a good time. It's a lot of fun. It's an hour. And it's really just a chance to bring a little humor and lightheartedness, but also some education to a very stressful industry on a Friday afternoon. So, a lot of fun. And then another one that I do is a monthly podcast called The Edge, and this is one I just started. And it's to highlight the latest and logistics technology. As a sales guy, I always wanted to get my product in front of as many people as possible, but sometimes it's difficult. Sometimes people don't want to give their email address and schedule a demo and blah, blah, blah. 

Patrick Escolas  25:47
Yeah.

Trey Griggs  25:48
We're using the power of dark social to invite these technology companies on, and everybody's invited on every podcast I do. Not, nobody pays to be on my podcast. So we invite them on to highlight what they're doing and give everybody out there a chance to watch, ask questions kind of get an inside look of what's really moving the needle in technology and logistics. And so it's kind of like a public sales demo format and it's called The Edge and I'm I'm really enjoying that one.

Patrick Escolas  26:13
And as we're talking about The Edge, what do you see within the industry? What technology is really changing right now? What's, what's making waves?

Trey Griggs  26:21
Yeah, there's, there's several that I feel like I've come on pretty strong lately that are making a huge impact. And I'm starting to learn about some that are really kind of, in the dark, if you will. Technologies that a lot of people don't know about that I'm excited to bring to light. So obviously, Greenscreens is one of my sponsors for industry and I think what they're doing for dynamic pricing is completely changing the game. And again, I used to work at DAT, I know what they did with RateView, and I know Truckstop rate and aid and all the other tools out there. What they're doing with machine learning and artificial intelligence with their customers is completely changing the game, so I'm really high on them. I'm also very high on Highway. Highway is about carrier identity. And you know, one of the biggest issues that freight brokers deal with today is double-brokering and fraud and theft. And a big part of that is just they don't have a really solid way or real efficient way of knowing of the carrier who is signing up for that load is actually the carrier who has a truck who's going to take that load. And they're using a lot of the authentication principles from finance to now use that here and transportation, just to make sure that those people never even get onboarded. And if they never get on boarded, and the likelihood of a double brokering situation or fraud or theft goes way down, which is also going to help with insurance and bonds. All of a sudden, there's a tons of things that are going to benefit from that. I'm really high on highway. I'm really high on aprl. My friend Chadd Olesen, what he's doing for automation in the industry, all those little things that people have to do at a freight brokerage, or to carrier that are just mundane, repetitive time consuming tasks, which could be scheduling appointments, it could be processing information, or paperwork or something like that. He's taking technology from outside of transportation needs to be worked with SAP and a lot of really big conglomerates outside of technology, bringing that into transportation, where it's been very antiquated for a long time, and doing some amazing, amazing work in that realm. So I'm really high on AVR

Patrick Escolas  28:15
That's interesting to me, because you've just spoken of two technologies that are pulling technology from two other industries and bringing into logistics. Is there, is there a reason logistics is kind of at the backend of getting the technology pulled to it? Or is logistics technologically, you know, evasive at this point? Are we, you know, are people pushing against it? Or, what's up with that?

Trey Griggs  28:38
That's a great question. I don't know that I know the why, of why it's been an antiquated industry, except just for the fact that it's kind of been in the dark for a long time. I mean, 10 years ago, if you said, you know, hey, I'm a freight broker, you'll be like, what is that? I don't even know what that is! Even though, they know that their stuff shows up at the grocery store every week. But they have no idea how that all works out. Before I start working at DAT, I didn't know this industry existed. It could be that it's kind of one of those kind of, you know, in the dark industries -- it just didn't get the attention, didn't get the VC dollars, because you need investment to do that. So now, we're starting to see that. So now we're starting to see new technologies come in. And I think the, the winning formula that I'm seeing with technology is the best in class, whatever it is, whether it's in the industry out of the industry, partnered up with a former operator. So for example, you know, Highway is run by Jordan Graft. He used to be at TriumphPay. So, that's the financial side of it. He did work with freight brokers, so he understands that. But now, he's got a team that includes, for example, Michael Caney, who has been a freight broker operator for years. And, so now you've got the finance guy who knows the authentication aspect of it and what's needed from a tech standpoint with an operator who can marry together and then talk the language of freight brokers. And as I'm seeing more freight brokers step out of the brokerage seat into a technology provider seat. The tech is getting better.

Patrick Escolas  30:01
Yeah, no, that's, um, that's something you hear at Banyan that at some point probably in the last five years someone in development stopped thinking, hey, I should make this because we cool to make it and someone went, let's talk to the people using the technology and write what they need. And it was crazy how that was a new idea within the technology. Whereas, you know someone from sales made might have been like, yeah, why did we make that product? Oh, because somebody asked for it versus oh, we thought it'd be cool.

Trey Griggs  30:31
Yeah. Technology, specifically in business in general has to be customer-centric, to really be effective. And having somebody who sat in that seat and can say, I know what it's like to take two days to process an RFP, let me show you how you can do it. That's way different.

Patrick Escolas  30:46
It's so powerful to have somebody from from the industry you're actually building it to and why you're doing it versus just in theory, or wouldn't this be cool? 

Trey Griggs  30:5
Exactly. 

Patrick Escolas  30:54
And you brought on a point that I spoke to Chris Jolly about when he said, technology, with the automation, you're kind of want to get to a point where the automation is doing all of that regular, normalized work. So that way, you can dedicate yourself to the exceptions or the somebody's hair's on fire, they don't know where the truck is. And you can focus on that small percentage, big deal stuff. And, I hadn't thought it, because you know, I'm selling this or talking to my clients day in and day out just you need this. But, that was the first time I really thought about where you need the automation, so you can you do the work that can't be done by automation.

Trey Griggs  31:31
Yeah, well, it's really it's really two-fold. And I'll jump in on that real quick. I mean, automation, I think accomplishes two really big purposes. One is what you just described, you know, we were talking with Chris, which is these things are just mundane, repetitive things that are not really fulfilling for me as an employee. And, you know, it's just taking up a bunch of time, right? But the second thing is, when automation is done, right, it allows you to scale in a way that up to this point has really been impossible to get an example: If I have a client that is shipping 500 loads a day, and they want me to quote each one of those shipments by hand, I might get to 20 or 25 of them. But if I have rapid technology... 

Patrick Escolas  32:12
Yeah.

Trey Griggs  32:12
If I have the right technology, if I have some automation tools, and a really great pricing engine, and I put all this together, I can now quote all 500 with good pricing and have a much higher chance of winning the freight and getting more business that I just physically could not do. Because I didn't have the right technology. So no technology should take away all the just mindless stuff that we do. And it should allow us to do much more than we can do on our own. And when it does that, that's when it's really effective. And it's worth investing in.

Patrick Escolas  32:42
You're preaching to the choir here. As you exhale, yes. But um, no, that's it. That's kind of amazing to me just thinking about I know, we all technology do more with less. And I think that, especially now we're across the board, it's harder to get employees left and right. And yet, you're trying to push for more profits from you know, from any organizational standpoint, how do you get to that point? I guess I have a question for you, as you're consulting. And as you're bringing these ideas in the storytelling and the automation and getting these processes. What are some of the biggest obstacles? You see, as you're trying to get things that way? Is it internal pushback from people who don't want to change? Or is it defining what that message is, like we talked about before? What do you see? Or is it you know, varied across the board?

Trey Griggs  33:33
Yeah, I'll try to answer that in a couple ways. So, I think the biggest pushback to like working with a consultant is a couple of things. One, possibly they've had a bad experience with a consultant. And anytime you have one bad experience, you tend to just throw that on every consultant the future, it's kind of what we do as humans. 

Patrick Escolas  33:47
Who hurt you? Who hurt you? 

Trey Griggs  33:48
Exactly. Yeah, if you have a bad plumbing experience, you might not want to hire any more plumbers, you know? If you have a bad experience with the doctor, you don't want to go back to the doctor. I mean, it's just kind of human nature. That happens often. I think the other thing too, is when you when you hire a consultant, you're investing money to pay somebody to come in, and, you know, fix something that, that's broken. Sometimes people don't want to, like deal with the fact that things aren't working. Sometimes they don't want to pay for something if there's not a direct impact on revenue. And sometimes consultants come in and need to give a perspective and a strategy and give you a game plan, but they're not actually implementing the game plan, or maybe they're planning part of it. But you have to at least identify the problem and figure out what the solutions are. And sometimes they don't have time for that. That's another issue -- just a time issue. Like, I know I need this, but when am I going to do it, you know? Or, I don't have time to work with a consultant. You know, I know I need it. What's funny to me is, it kind of is the Dave Ramsey principle. You know, Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University class that he offers from Nashville, Tennessee? it's $100. it's $100. But people don't sign up because they can't afford it. Well, if you can't afford $100, you need the class. So, it's almost like what they need the most they can't get because they literally... don't, like, it's a circular problem. So sometimes that's the case too. It's like, you know, some of these companies don't have the time. They don't think they have the time to do it. But if they would just slow down and take the time, but if they...

Patrick Escolas  35:12
Don't, do something about it, it's never gonna get better. 

Trey Griggs  35:16
Exactly! 

Patrick Escolas  35:17
You're gonna be constantly catching up. Right.

Trey Griggs  35:18
It's more of a mindset of just going, okay, I know, this is  important, I'm going to invest in this. I'm going to slow down and make sure that this works. 

Patrick Escolas  35:25
So I think, so before they call you or get you involved, something has to click internally, that they actually have the time to do it or go down that path?

Trey Griggs  35:35
They they know, it's important, they you have to make the time for it. They acknowledge that there's a problem. That's always an issue. Sometimes if companies don't acknowledge that there's a problem. Like, everybody on the sales team could say, hey, there's a problem, but if the person who writes the checks, doesn't think it's a problem, then there's no, there's not a problem. And so, that's, that's always kind of an issue, as well as just understanding. I'm working with a client right now that is on there, multiple iterations of a sales team. They've tried to do it multiple times and haven't gotten it right, yet. And now they're like, okay, we need help, we need outside help. So, it's acknowledging that there's a problem, and then making sure that the person that you're working with can can provide that solution. So, that's getting started is really difficult. When you work with a great consultant, you really don't think you can live without them. When you were a bad consultant, you never want to work with a consultant again.

Patrick Escolas  36:23
Yeah -- no. And so for something like that, and we're talking marketing, and what different organizations should do to help them, how are you marketing? Obviously, you have your podcast, but are you going to an organization be like, Hey, your sales suck -- you need me! Because, I doubt anybody wants to hear that! I mean, what does that look like for you is? Because aren't you kinda, if, if they're not directly going for you, you've got to be doing some sort of prospecting, aren't you? Are you at certain times peeling back the layers be like, hey, don't you wish you were making the money you're supposed to be making, right now? And are you afraid of embarrassing them? Like, what? How does that work?

Trey Griggs  36:59
Well, you know, it's interesting, it's been a journey for me. I think I mentioned this before we came on the air that I've already pivoted twice in my business, because it's difficult finding product market fit is always a challenge, when you get started. And, becoming really self aware and becoming comfortable with who you are, and what type of business you're going to do best leading is really important. And so, it's taken me a little while to get to those, those avenues. So I have rewritten marketing material multiple times, I'm currently rewriting a lot of it again. And so that's a part of what I'm doing. But as far as is that, I would say this, the podcast is certainly part of it, growing, my network is definitely a part of it, it makes sure people know who I am. And making sure I'm messaging correctly, those, that's all a huge part of it. The biggest, if somebody were to come to me today and say, Hey, I'm gonna start a business, what do you think I should do? The first thing I would say to them is take six months and build your network. 

Patrick Escolas  37:50
Okay. 

Trey Griggs  37:50
Because if you have, if you have a big network of people who know you, who trust you, who understand what you do, and that's where the messaging comes in, it makes it a lot easier to get started. So, a lot of the opportunities that I have now often come from people who see me on LinkedIn, people who watch the podcast, people go to my website, all of that working together. And there's, there's 20 things I still want to do, but it's a time issue. Like I'll get to them, I just don't have, I haven't done hardly any email marketing yet, which is like a cardinal sin.

Patrick Escolas  38:20
I was gonna say, Are you practicing what you preach?

Trey Griggs  38:22
Well, that's, that's the hard part is you've got to you've got to eventually get to it, you got to drink your own Kool Aid. And as a small, small company, I do depend on outside resources to help me out. Because I can't do it all myself. And so I am drinking my own Kool Aid. I'm not where I want to be yet. We're getting there. My hope is that a year from now, and I look back, and I have a lot of pieces in place. It'll all be worth it. I think it will. But so far, it's been primarily networking, and social media podcast, word of mouth. That's been that's been the way that I've gotten opportunities.

Patrick Escolas  38:54
And that makes so much sense, especially within logistics, because as big of an industry it is, it's a it's a small group, everybody knows everybody, which is somehow frightening and awesome at the same time.

Trey Griggs  39:04
Well, it means you better do a good job. You're gonna get a bad reputation.

Patrick Escolas  39:08
Yeah, things follow you, whether it's a halo or a horn, you know? 

Trey Griggs  39:13
It's good point. 

Patrick Escolas  39:14
Yeah. No, that's great. So, I kind of have been asking everybody that I've been talking to, as far as as crazy as kind of things were with COVID in the industry: What do you think about where we're at now? And what do you think within the next two to three years is going to be either game changing or completely, completely different? What, what do you think is coming around? Or what will it look like?

Trey Griggs  39:34
Yeah, great question. I don't know that I'm great at answering these questions, but I'll do my best. Certainly.. 

Patrick Escolas  39:38
If we don't like the answer, we'll cut it out.

Trey Griggs  39:40
Just cut it out. I certainly am glad that we're beyond COVID, for the most part. I mean, I there's still some talk about it, but I think for the most part, we're beyond that. Trade shows have come back in full force. I think that people value those now more than they did before because they're able to get out and connect. So I think for the next several years, we'll see that people I see are more interested in going to trade shows to network now than to be than education. Some people still go for education. But most people are going to have a network to have meetings to meet people and to talk to people. So that's probably gonna continue.

Patrick Escolas  40:14
And just goes right to what you're preaching -- about the networking and how important that is.

Trey Griggs  40:17
Yeah, it's really it's really important. I've seen that happening. Next couple of years? Man, it's a great question. I just don't know that I'm, I'm really good at predicting, I'd probably make a lot more money if I was better at predicting.

Patrick Escolas  40:29
If I knew it, you know, I wouldn't be voluntold to do podcasts.

Trey Griggs  40:33
Yeah. I do think that we're gonna see more companies like what you guys are doing creating a podcast, creating content, being able to drive the message. You know, some people say cash started on the podcast are so many out there. But the truth is, there's not a podcast about your company, or about you. And I always tell people this, like, you're one of one. I mean, you know, whether it sounds corny, or not, 

Patrick Escolas  40:56
Aww! 

Trey Griggs  40:57
Your one of one, like there's never one be there. There's never been a Patrick, before, like you and there's never gonna be one after like you like you are one, one.

Patrick Escolas  41:05
And thank God because we all have our hands full, including myself.

Trey Griggs  41:09
Exactly. And companies are the same way. So, even though there might be a lot of podcasts out there, there's a there's a market, there's a niche for what people want to hear. One thing that struck me about my podcast is, I started the podcast, as a way to get to build my network and market myself. What I learned after doing it for several months, is the comments that I was receiving was, hey, I really enjoy your content. Thanks for bringing positivity to this industry. That was not my initial purpose of doing that. But it you know, it fires me up to people enjoy the content, because it's positive. And it's different than what Chris Jolly does. Chris has a great platform, and he's got his own bed, and he's more of an operator and he knows things about logistics I'll never know. And he likes to drop a few F bombs from now. and then. People love that he's got his he's got his groove, you know? And Blythe Brumley is different. She has her way of doing things. And I wish more people would do that, because I believe there's there's plenty of appetite for that. So hopefully more people will start podcasts and create stories and use it as content and those types of things and network and connect. I think that's going to happen more in the next two or three years. And then outside of that, I really hope that our industry starts to become a leader when it comes to technology and some of the advances that we have, and...

Patrick Escolas  42:24
Instead of getting it secondhand...

Trey Griggs  42:26
Yeah, it would be really cool. And the sad part is that I just think it's going to take a long time for us to get out of that cycle for people to really believe that they can be innovative, but we're starting to see against some really cool technologies that are that are doing some of those things.

Patrick Escolas  42:40
Well, I like that idea. And I think that's a that's a great place for logistics to get as a whole. So you've talked to me a while here, and I know that that can people can only do it for so long. Generally, we only do it in 15 minute increments, because otherwise, we'll get in trouble.

Trey Griggs  42:55
I used to have a radio show in college. So I was used to fill in time it was by myself. And I was just talking to the girls up in Ely dorm and playing the songs that they love for two hours. So... 

Patrick Escolas  43:05
That's right. All music. All men's music tastes should come from what women are listening to. Exactly. Yeah, I have my own tastes but it only matters if I can get the the one I'm trying to talk to to talk to me.

Trey Griggs  43:18
Well, let me say this I love barbershop quartet music, but I didn't play any of it on a Saturday morning in college.

Patrick Escolas  43:24
Bangers only, man. That's right. So, I'll let you with a what's what's one message and you might have hit this as kind of your your forecast for the future of the industry or kind of under storytelling. But here's your as we're kind of ramping this down. What's one thing you have to say kind of in a nutshell, either about yourself or your podcasts or the industry? Here's, here's your soapbox, what are you gonna do with it?

Trey Griggs  43:46
Man, that's a great question, but  I think if I had one thing I would say to anybody who's listening to this, it would be to really get comfortable with being who you are, and explore what that really is. And I'll just share my story very, very quickly. You know, we all should go to counseling. And the reason that we should all go to counseling is because we all have parents. And if you're a parent, you know exactly what I mean. I guarantee you I'm messing my kids up right now. Their, their eating habits are probably going to be terrible for a long time. They might have really bad habits around like, making their bed in the morning. 

Patrick Escolas  44:18
I feel, I feel attacked right now. But it doesn't mean it's not true.

Trey Griggs  44:22
I mean, it is like we're messing our kids up in some way -- one way or the other, because we're human beings. And what really helped me was when I started to look at my parents and understand who they were, understand my grandparents because they parented my parents, and what all that did to me as a person and it wasn't, you know, sometimes we hurt people intentionally. And sometimes we heard them just because we're humans. And when I looked at my parents and the influence that they had on me, they did a lot of things. Well, they did a lot of things well that I didn't give him credit for. They did some really bad things that messed me up, and it wasn't intentional. Looking back. I know it wasn't intentional, but it messed me up nonetheless. And I had to spend some time really understanding that in order to take responsibility for who I am and try to become better. And when I did that, my life became infinitely better. I had infinitely more empathy for other people. I'm able to go into any meeting now and think to myself, man, they might be going through some real crap right now, and I don't know about it. And I need to have empathy for that. So, it changed my relationships, it changed the way I approach people and how I treat people as much as I can every time in a way that helps them out. And it's all because I was willing to kind of look into my past, look into my parents look into who I am, and start to become comfortable and work towards improving those areas that I didn't like.

Patrick Escolas  45:36
That was beautiful, Trey, I, I, that was an amazing message and not what I expected. So, I'll tell you what, I did expect you to say: If you're looking for sales and marketing consultants, logistics, look up Trey and Beta Consulting Group. But no, that was awesome. And that that hits because you know, there's going inside to figure out how you view and how you can deal and more comfortably get through and cope with anything that life throws at you is fantastic. And that was not at all what I was expecting here. This, but here you go. You know, we'll have our Banyan, Banyan therapy session soon. But...

Trey Griggs  46:17
I'll say that I'll say this in response, I'll say this in response. I love sales and marketing. I love logistics and history, but I really care about people more than that. Because at the end of the day, it's about people, you know? And I think about my own company, like, who's going to be at my deathbed someday? No one with BETA Consulting Group is going to be there. Probably nobody in the logistics industry is going to be there, but my family is going to be there, some of my close friends are going to be there. Treating... 

Patrick Escolas  46:40
The word on the street people might be!

Trey Griggs  46:42
The street crew might be there! Depending on when it happens, the street crew might show up.

Patrick Escolas  46:46
They might also be the reason it happens, by the sound of it.

Trey Griggs  46:49
You never know. It's possible -- you never know. But it's all about, to me. It's all about people. The end of the day, people aren't going to be talking about BETA Consulting Group. 50 years from now, they're just not you know? So...

Patrick Escolas  47:00
Trey, thank you so much for the time today. I really appreciate it, again. Depends on how we edit this, but Trey Griggs at the BETA Consulting Group, The Edge, Standing Out and Word on the Street podcast -- all a good time, it sounds like. And this has been a great talk, Trey, I look forward to following you and seeing what else you put out there and how else you you know find organizations a way to better their storytelling.

Trey Griggs  47:23
Patrick, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

Patrick Escolas  47:25
Hey, thank you so much, Trey. Have a great one, man.

Announcer  47:30
Thank you for listening to Tire Tracks. Watch for new episodes dropping monthly and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other podcast apps. For more information about Banyan Technology, visit banyantechnology.com.