Announcer: 0:07

Welcome to Tire Tracks, a Banyan Technology podcast driving the logistics industry. And now your host, Patrick Escolas.

Patrick Escolas: 0:15

Hey everybody it's Patrick Escolas here, your favorite podcast host with Banyan Tire Tracks. Still Downtown Cleveland at the Hilton for our first-ever Banyan Connect 2022 Users Conference. I'm really excited. I have Kevin Huntsman with me from Mastio and thank you for being here, Kevin. I appreciate it.

Kevin Huntsman: 0:34

You're very welcome. It's my pleasure.

Patrick Escolas: 0:36

Thank you. And first question, this one's really easy. What is Mastio?

Kevin Huntsman: 0:40

So, Mastio is a market research company. We focus specifically in the logistics industry around less than truckload and truckload study. So what we do is we interview shippers,

Patrick Escolas: 0:50

Okay.

Kevin Huntsman: 0:50

And when we talk to those shippers, we capture their perception of the carriers that they use, then what we do is we bring all that data together and build reports that we provide to the carriers that allows them to improve their services for those shippers that they work with on an annual basis.

Patrick Escolas: 1:04

That's awesome. Now, are you going and finding specific shippers they come in to you? What does that look like?

Kevin Huntsman: 1:08

So we actually do everything by telephone. So all of our data collection. So we've just finished the 18th edition of the studies, we have 18 years of data. So, during that timeframe, we've really refined our database of who we talk to relative to say larger type shippers. We do get a bit of a smaller, but we're really focusing on those larger shippers that deal primarily

Patrick Escolas: 1:30

And what are you trying to glean from that?

Kevin Huntsman: 1:33

It's a good question. What we're really trying to glean is how can the carriers offer a better experience? Okay, so what the way I really think about mas to having been there for 26 years is we're a lot like JD Power. All right, so JD Power measures, how do you feel the airline's perform? How do you feel the the car performance? We're asking? How do you feel that this this LTL

Patrick Escolas: 1:51

Within that, are you putting a stamp of approval on carriers?

Kevin Huntsman: 1:55

You know, we do actually. We have, we do have a Mastio Quality Award across the different segments, whether it's a national carrier or overall in a quick story for that Old Dominion freight lines.

Patrick Escolas: 2:06

Yeah...

Kevin Huntsman: 2:06

Is obviously a very big LTL carrier. I know that yeah! I'm sure most people do! So, they just finished number one, international LTL carrier segment of the LTL study, and they'll be running a full page ad in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday

Patrick Escolas: 2:19

With that, with that tag...

Kevin Huntsman: 2:21

With that tag on it. And if you see the Old Dominion freight lines, commercial with all the college mascots, they mentioned that they're the number one national LTL carrier and my company's name is down in the bottom right. So it's, it's It's small, but it's big,

Patrick Escolas: 2:34

But it's there. It's been we made it.

Kevin Huntsman: 2:36

We did, we did.

Patrick Escolas: 2:37

So you say you've been doing this for 18 years?

Kevin Huntsman: 2:39

Yes.

Patrick Escolas: 2:39

Now, tell me from that 18 year perspective, we'll get into a little more granular questions there. But what's, what's changed? I mean, obviously a lot...

Kevin Huntsman: 2:47

The carriers have changed, obviously. Who is in the business -- some like New England Motor Freight a few years ago dropped out. Central Freight, I believe was at last year they went under. So there's been different carriers over the course of time. I think some of the bigger change that we're going to see are companies like Knight Swift buying AAA Cooper. Also buying Midwest

Patrick Escolas: 3:40

Now, across the board, is just by automating, does that raise their rank, per se, or it doesn't always work out that way?

Kevin Huntsman: 3:47

Doesn't always work out that way. There's still the human component.

Patrick Escolas: 3:49

Okay...

Kevin Huntsman: 3:49

So ,you really still have that people factor to it. So, we talked during the discussion about different levels of importance for the various attributes, pickup. Delivery consistent is always up at the top...

Patrick Escolas: 4:01

I was gonna say -- rates was was number seven.

Kevin Huntsman: 4:03

Number seven...

Patrick Escolas: 4:04

Probably crazy to everybody because we're Banyan...

Kevin Huntsman: 4:07

But what it goes down to is if my rate and your rate are the same, what's the differentiator?

Patrick Escolas: 4:11

Right?

Kevin Huntsman: 4:12

So, who am I going to do business with? So the person that's easy to do business with that offers a good customer experience is typically those companies that have went out.

Patrick Escolas: 4:19

And I like that. So, we've looked at that kind of, from a broad perspective, from 18 years. So past 12-18 months, been crazy to put in crazy in a very mild way. What What have you seen from the data points and from interviewing shippers?

Kevin Huntsman: 4:32

Yeah, so that's a really good question. So what we saw in 21 versus 20, we saw a very significant decline in the perception of the carriers. So, we measure about 30 different attributes in the industry average on every one of those attributes declined in 2021.

Patrick Escolas: 4:46

Okay...

Kevin Huntsman: 4:47

People were unhappy.

Patrick Escolas: 4:47

And is that accurate based on what the carrier was doing? It's just what was available at the time.

Kevin Huntsman: 4:51

It's really it is accurate, because it was how the shippers perceived that relationship with the carrier and their pain points.

Patrick Escolas: 4:58

Gotcha. So very real to them, whether or not...it was real to them.

Kevin Huntsman: 5:01

It was very real to them. And we do think there was a lot of validity around it as we look at the data that just came out earlier this week, only 20% of the attributes declined.

Patrick Escolas: 5:11

Okay...

Kevin Huntsman: 5:11

From from 2021. So, they're actually getting back to those 2019-2020 levels, really 2019 levels of performance.

Patrick Escolas: 5:19

Okay...

Kevin Huntsman: 5:19

Coming out of the pandemic.

Patrick Escolas: 5:20

They might actually be smiling when the carrier rep comes by? Or not quite there yet?

Kevin Huntsman: 5:23

Maybe a little bit? I think so much of it has to do with who has the power and pricing.

Patrick Escolas: 5:26

Yeah.

Kevin Huntsman: 5:27

That's really so much...

Patrick Escolas: 5:28

That shifts, you'll see...

Kevin Huntsman: 5:29

You do. You see, you see the perception and the happiness level move with that.

Patrick Escolas: 5:34

So, we talked about past 121-8 months. Q4 is here, looking into 2023, what do we see for the next year? Is it are you gonna see a jump in, yuo know, how people perceive carriers? Are we gonna see is Old Dominion gonna lose their title they just got?

Kevin Huntsman: 5:48

You know, I don't know -- that's a good question. I think they they're always worried every year do they get to keep that? It's, it's the carriers, the shippers make that decision based on their input. I think Matt spoke from Yellow this morning -- did a really nice job -- talked about the the lack of drivers.

Patrick Escolas: 6:01

Yeah.

Kevin Huntsman: 6:02

And I mean, you see, you hear embargoes and certain lanes, because carriers don't have drivers.

Patrick Escolas: 6:07

So that has to affect the product.

Kevin Huntsman: 6:08

It has to affect the product, it does. And what you don't want is if you're that carrier that has to have that embargo, you don't want to lose that customer forever. You want them to come back. And I think that's the challenge as well.

Patrick Escolas: 6:18

And and what is the carrier going to do in that situation? or...

Kevin Huntsman: 6:21

Yellow is doing a good job with their driver schools.

Patrick Escolas: 6:23

Okay.

Kevin Huntsman: 6:24

Being very proactive. And I know other carriers are doing it as well. I think Yellow has been very upfront about it --its worked. And I think it's one way to go create your own supply.

Patrick Escolas: 6:35

Gotcha. Now, you know, we're here with Banyan and we're talking about that. How is Mastio and Banyan going to work together for someone to be worthwhile?

Kevin Huntsman: 6:43

You know, that's a really good question. We talked about that today for a while with Brian and in a roundtable. And I think there's some data that we have that can complement the work that you all do. So Brian talked about some 1.0 ideas around that. So, it's something that him and I'll continue to talk and we'd be delighted to work with a company like Banyan.

Patrick Escolas: 7:00

So really, it's going to be up to the development to do the work. But we'll come up with the ideas. Yeah...

Kevin Huntsman: 7:04

Hey, there you go. I'm great at ideas. I just don't want to do the implementation when it comes to programming.

Patrick Escolas: 7:08

Don't worry, they're far they can't...

Kevin Huntsman: 7:09

Yeah, ok -- good, good...

Patrick Escolas: 7:10

No, but that's awesome. And that, like you were saying that, you know, pricing being on the low end, what are I guess, what should a carrier do? What, what do they need to do to get higher in that list that maybe they're not doing right now?

Kevin Huntsman: 7:22

Yeah, I mean, I think it's not just listen in, look at our data, but talk to their customers, talk to their reps, what are the what are the challenges that they're seeing when they're out there meeting with customers and, and I think, as a carrier have the technology that makes it easier for you to do business with them, when you when you acquire another carrier integrated into the

Patrick Escolas: 7:44

Straightforward.

Kevin Huntsman: 7:44

It is pretty straightforward. But it's very, very difficult.

Patrick Escolas: 7:46

It's hard to execute on, it's very hard to get that feedback, What can you do with it?

Kevin Huntsman: 7:50

You got to you've got to I would say pick the low hanging fruit first, what's what's easy to fix and sales? Well, let's see, what's the what's the what's fast to fix is what I say then after that, how do you integrate these different types of things in your organization? Old Dominion is a good example. Another good example is Averitt, based out of Cookeville, Tennessee.

Patrick Escolas: 8:06

Yeah.

Kevin Huntsman: 8:07

They are a wonderful company. They've got a great culture, and they have a culture that starts at the top around the concern for the customer. And if it's not at the executive level, it's never going to make its way down into the frontline.

Patrick Escolas: 8:17

That's a fair point. And with that, would you say that historically, those that don't do well on the perceived carrier, Guess what would the word be?

Kevin Huntsman: 8:27

Just the quality attributes that we measure would probably be a good word?

Patrick Escolas: 8:32

Are those quality attributes? If they're low on that, could they also still be successful? Or is it usually correlated through...

Kevin Huntsman: 8:37

They can and that's a really, really good question. They can they can be what we call a low cost and low or almost an economic option, low cost, low benefit.

Patrick Escolas: 8:45

Gotcha.

Kevin Huntsman: 8:46

So like, a Dollar Tree is a good example.

Patrick Escolas: 8:48

Spirit Air! You won't like the ride, but they'll get you there.

Kevin Huntsman: 8:50

Right, exactly! They'll get you there, they may charge at 30 different times for the things you carry on the plane.

Patrick Escolas: 8:54

Yeah,

Kevin Huntsman: 8:54

But no, you can make money and be in that position. I think long term, you generate more customer loyalty with a more not with an economic product, but something that that that that aligns with your cost to the level of service that you provide.

Patrick Escolas: 9:08

So, when you're talking to us with Banyan, you're talking about putting that in front of not only the shipper, but maybe the broker. Do carriers work with you to try to better themselves or see where they fit?

Kevin Huntsman: 9:19

Oh, yeah!

Patrick Escolas: 9:19

Reading the reports, but...

Kevin Huntsman: 9:20

Yeah, there is. There's a lot of work a lot of time that's what I've been doing the last hour scheduling calls to review, and I try to go on site to every carrier every carrier

Patrick Escolas: 9:28

Right.

Kevin Huntsman: 9:28

Now that we're hopefully out of COVID, I can continue all those trips. Yeah, but no, it's, it's it's a process that is ongoing through the year, and that we're constantly working with them and finding ways to carve out the data and look at it by region, by terminal, etc.

Patrick Escolas: 9:41

I was gonna say, so that perception, is that kind of from an overall in the carrier, are they giving you data on lane to lane, or...

Kevin Huntsman: 9:48

We don't really get into that on this particular project we can on what we call a more proprietary type project. With this study, it's wide open. Yeah, and everybody can see all the ratings for every one and all the open ended comments. So anything proprietary, we manage outside of that fence

Patrick Escolas: 10:02

Understood.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:02

Of that, that type of study.

Patrick Escolas: 10:04

No. So, what I'm hearing, like, you're picking up the phone, you're going in person. And so you've got a lot of data, but it's kind of all hinged on the human element. So getting analytics even from people. Yes, that's huge. And I like that. I'm personally asked to pick up the phone to cold calling dead.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:22

No, no, it's not.

Patrick Escolas: 10:24

We want it to be.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:25

It's not gonna happen.

Patrick Escolas: 10:27

Just answer the email.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:28

Good luck!

Patrick Escolas: 10:29

But um, but that's been really good for me. And so as far as give me wear Mastio places, what do you see in five years from now? Kind of from logistics, but also where might Mastio weigh in?

Kevin Huntsman: 10:40

That's a good question as well. Somebody asked today, if we do work in the 3PL space, we will move that way. We also do work.

Patrick Escolas: 10:46

And that makes sense. It's kind of organic.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:48

Yeah, it is. And part of it us is we're not we have 25 employees.

Patrick Escolas: 10:51

Okay.

Kevin Huntsman: 10:51

I don't want to be 100-employee company. So, it's managed growth that makes sense for us since sustainable growth that makes sense. And really, we like partnering with our existing clients on doing other projects as well.

Patrick Escolas: 11:04

Okay.

Kevin Huntsman: 11:04

But we do like the idea of another study around the 3PL piece.

Patrick Escolas: 11:07

That'd be awesome. I mean, because we've got like I said, we have the shippers, the three bills that they play in the space we album, it sounds like you've got a great tool to help make those decisions, which kind of fits within that band and Toolbox there. So I don't have as many other questions. So if I'm, if I'm leaving you here, and you got one shot to tell anybody who's

Kevin Huntsman: 11:27

You know, what I would tell people and you'll laugh at this, but I would say if Mastio calls you and wants to get your feedback, please take the 15 minutes. It's once a year. We'd appreciate your time, because the time you give us that data does go to the carriers, they do leverage that information to provide a better experience.

Patrick Escolas: 11:43

Answer the phone for Mastio!

Kevin Huntsman: 11:44

That's right. Thank you.

Patrick Escolas: 11:45

They also have the extended car warranty for you!

Kevin Huntsman: 11:48

Promise we won't have that!

Patrick Escolas: 11:50

I really appreciate it.

Kevin Huntsman: 11:51

Thank you. Thanks.

Announcer: 11:55

Thank you for listening to Tire Tracks. Watch for new episodes dropping monthly and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and other podcast apps. For more information about Banyan Technology, visit banyantechnology.com.