Hey, everybody. It's Patrick Escolas with another Banyan Technology’s Tire Tracks installment of our impact of AI on freight procurement. Today, I have with me all the way from across the pond, or at least he sounds it like, we’ve got Jonathan Ryan. Jonny Boy from Overhaul. How are you doing, John?

Doing well. Pretty good. How are you?

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Now I've spoke to Overhaul a few times. Give me a brief elevator pitch of who Overhaul is for anybody hearing it for the first time.

We've got a software suite of supply chain risk management pain points that solves against supply chain risk management pain points. We go against freight fraud, strategic cargo thefts, product spoilage, delays, and damage, all of that stuff. We're pretty comprehensive in protecting your cargo in a variety of ways.

Hey, I like it. I like it. Put the cowboy hat on, put the badge and get the gun in the holster. These guys are the sheriff in town. John, tell me about yourself. I always like to ask people, how do you find yourself in logistics? Now, sure, Overhaul is not like – you're not carrying the truck and calling up the carriers and moving the boxes, but you're still part of that world. Is that something that happened organically through a tech suite and go in the tech way? Or were you born into it a little bit? Or did somebody have a wanted sign and you just stumbled in and you look back and five years later, you've been at Overhaul that long? What's your story?

For myself, my own story, yeah. Yeah, definitely growing up in Ireland, going to college, I wasn't thinking that logistics was going to be the end goal for me. But it's something that I found, completed a computer science degree in Cork in Ireland, and I went to Austin.

That's a requirement, though, right? If you're doing college in Ireland, isn't PC, computer science, isn't that the most common, or is that a perception I might have?

It definitely wasn't the most common when I did it.

Awesome.

There was a big push behind getting people into tech in Ireland.

They pushed you. They're like, “This guy. This guy. We put this guy up. He's going to go into tech.” And you're like, “I guess, so. All right.”

Yup. Exactly. That's pretty much exactly how it went. Yeah, I wrapped up in college and I wanted to get over to the states and I wanted to apply that knowledge in an area that was growing in tech and that was Austin, Texas.

Hey, keep it weird in Austin. To good a place to land.

Love Austin. Great place. Just found Overhaul there, and started in tech support myself. I was pretty early in. At that point, we had a marketplace product where we were trying to engage carriers who were doing great jobs, but maybe smaller with higher-value shippers. That marketplace led us in the direction of, well, the software we’re building actually aligns more with the security space and software started to lean towards, well, how can we detect all these anomalies and stops in high-risk areas and deviations. Our product grew out of that original marketplace into the SaaS software security solution that it is today.

Yeah, from myself, what was – like I said, I don't have 20 years of supply chain logistics experience, but what was really good about starting off in the tech support side was I did a lot of testing with our app, and that meant going to warehouses, DC, sitting in the cab with drivers, understanding the pain points, seeing on the ground how things worked. That helped me develop into the product and tech space.

I was going to say, you might not have 20 years, but when you're on tech support and you're the people, you're the person that people complain or say what's going on to, you're going to learn real fast, I'm sure.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, baptism of fire when you can start off like that. I wouldn't have it any other way. It was a incredible experience.

Yeah. No, that's awesome. I myself, four or five years until logistics now, very similar. Came out of nowhere, and it was like, you better learn and you better learn fast. Because everybody that's talking to you assumes that everyone they're talking to has been doing this for 10, 20 years, especially if you're working with them. Good on you to learn logistics, that I feel that the way that everybody learns logistics reactively and with your hair on fire. If you're learning something new, it means that something else has gone wrong, or somebody said, “Use this. I don't care how you figure it out.”

With that awesome story, and I love it, and I'm sure everybody loved calling up and getting your accent. I mean, I'm fawning just right now. Tell me, we're talking about AI and really the tech and the industry, obviously, from a Banyan perspective, we're biased. We're TMS. We've been doing it with APIs, EDIs for years, but now we got a new acronym, AI. You can't go down the street without getting three or four startups and all of a sudden, your coffee maker is running in a - How does Overhaul look at AI and both from a benefit to your solutions, your software and both of the challenge for something to look at from a new threat?

Yeah. I think both of those perspectives are really interesting. It opens up a lot of doors for us in terms of how we can improve our software, provide new solutions, help our customers understand data quicker. But it also helps the criminals that we're targeting and working against do a lot of things faster. Really accelerates a lot of the methods that they use to attack and embed themselves into the processes today.

It's really a double-edged sword, much like a lot of technology development throughout the years, whether it's, we get weapons on one side and medicine on the other. On the tech space, it's very much, hey, you get more protection, but now those guys on with the black hats that know how to use it are that much more dangerous.

Yeah. That's what's really interesting from our perspective and from the technology team and intel perspective is you know what is an arms race and you've got to stay ahead of these guys. As much as AI and Gen AI and everything can contribute towards better solutions and improve the technology, introduce efficiencies, you really need the expertise involved in that as well. We still involve very deeply into a lot of our product development, the 100-plus combined years of law enforcement, investigative experience that we have at Overhaul. That intelligence components of understanding the MOs, understanding behavior, actually getting out there, boots on the ground, catching cargo criminals, embedding all of that intelligence into our system is key to us, to combine with gen AI, ML and all the things that people want to put in their new company name.

Yeah, for sure. I think that Overhaul, from what I know, you fit in a very – it's very logistics by industry common. You have this tech and these solutions and these people that know the cutting edge. Then, like you said, it's very connected to the boots on the ground and the low tech, too. I imagine there's a mixture of both those things, and if you go too far on either end of the sliding spectrum of low tech versus high tech, you're vulnerable either way. You have to find a medium. What is Overhaul’s view on where that sweet spot is? Is there any, or ever a point where you do sacrifice the high tech, because there's no better answer than people being there with eyes on? Because what you're doing from a supply chain protection, how is having somebody, like in the old days, the Pinkertons going next to the train, or riding on the train with their guns, stopping the people from coming up. How do you go away from that to all of a sudden, the freight, the carrier itself, or the container knows if it's being attacked and how to protect itself? Somewhere in between there is where you guys fit in.

Yeah. That was a long question, but I've got a longer answer.

I'm in sales, so I like to talk. I'm so sorry for everybody that has to listen. But please. A long answer is fine.

Yeah. It's going to take me a little bit to get through. We've really been focused on this concept of shifting left. When we started this company, a goal for us in the beginning was our competitors had one watch officer, one security operator watching 20 dots on a screen. Now, we have one person that's able to monitor 10,000-plus shipments at a time, because of the data intelligence and automation.

The pattern recognition. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. And behind that. That was our goal of, well, how can we be proactive? How can we detect things as they happen by processing raw data in a way that is intelligent and identify these behaviors? Over time, we shifted left through the concept of, well, now that we know who the carriers and drivers, the bad actors in that area are, well, how can we get to shipment creation? When our customers are creating shipments, flag it then that this carrier is operating out of a known dangerous location, or we've seen issues before, or this numbers come up. Flag it at that point.

It's being more and more proactive than you ever had before, even steps before you would even be involved as Overhaul.

Yeah, absolutely. We've still developed out solutions on our side that fit into the process that we've installed today, but just allows them to detect it earlier. In that example, we have a mobile application, or a tablet application that will send out to the customer, or that they'll install. When a carrier shows up to pick up their load, maybe the TMS said that a certain carrier was taking it, but then it's been double brokered and somebody else shows up. Now, when they're capturing that in the tablet, or in the mobile app, we're able to flag that, okay, it's been double brokered. But also, this carrier that showed up, we've seen it in incidents before, we have as part of our intelligence data.

Really, to touch back to your question, that sweet spot for us is as much as the manual behavior and the boots on the ground is important, it's pulling all of that data into essential repository. If we have an incident where something is stolen and we're involving law enforcement, we're still capturing the actions that were taken and the outcome of that boots on the ground event to feed into our data, so that when we see those similar behaviors happen next, we're understanding that context and we're able to hopefully, be more preventative and more prescriptive around those types of events.

No, and that makes sense, because like you said, even with the boots on the ground is a police action, or someone literally walking up and checking something, the data you're getting from that is driving the software and the tech piece for next time to be, as I assume, even more proactive than you're shifting left now. I guess, this is a silly thing to ask, but at what point do you become too paranoid, or it's slowing down business? It’s talking about sweet spots. There's the risk versus reward, and how much time and resource do we put in being safe versus just getting this thing moving, if it stays in the dock and we're afraid of it moving all day, we're still in the same spot as if it got stolen.

Yeah. I mean, it's a great question, and is there a perfect answer for where that is?

If you had good answers for it, we'd be in a higher suits in a VP suite somewhere, but I like to ask the hard ones, just because I can't answer them.

Yeah. No, and I think that that's something that we've really leaned in past years on our intelligence team and on that law enforcement network, on understanding, and as well as working with our customers on it, as well around understanding their locations, their network, trying to get as much ahead of it as possible. Really, it comes down to the experience that we have in our team, but also in the 10 years of Overhaul, or close to 10 years of Overhaul. Also, through the acquisition that we made a couple of years back with –

Whose? Yeah, who is it you acquired?

FreightWatch.

FreightWatch? Okay.

FreightWatch. Yeah. That brought with it another 20 years of data. What was really advantageous from our perspective was around the time of the emergence of gen AI and everything that ChatGPT and all the rest could do, we had just finished that acquisition. A big part of that acquisition was, well, if we're going to go and acquire this company, then we need to keep all that data and make the get value as best we can. We did a big effort to pull everything together.

Instead of setting John, John is sitting in a room with 20 servers of all the data they've had for the past 20 years, you can start utilizing these LLM models to go through and find some patterns and put that data along with your own, is what I assume.

Yeah, absolutely. Even the effort of combining all that data into one central repository, we just finished that effort as the LLM started to emerge. Now, we had fantastic. We've got all of this in one place that we can now pass to gen AI for more insights, more understanding to like you've mentioned, because that's the biggest problem a lot of companies have with gen AI today is that they have something in spreadsheets, something in a third party, something in their database. It's very hard to get all that together.

You’re talking about logistics. Everybody's got way too many things in spreadsheets, and they don't know where they are anymore, but they know they made it. Yeah, I imagine, especially with an acquisition that being, and like you said, 20 years of them and all the years that Overhaul has with just putting the data together and then making it usable, not only for yourselves, but then handing it down to the logistics customers, shippers, carriers, whoever you're dealing with, has to be difficult.

I want to say, what is the biggest reason that somebody comes to use someone like Overhaul? Have they been burned in the past, or is it because they're being proactive? Or does that vary customer to customer, client to client?

I think it varies. But we've definitely seen over the years where somebody's been targeted, they've been hit, they've had a lot of loss in a single year, or over a couple of months and then they will engage with us. We've had some success stories, where it's gone from in the tens of millions, year one, then engaging with Overhaul down to 4 million, 1 million, and then less than 100,000.

Where's the account manager for that? That's a really easy ROI. “Hey, I know how you guys are doing. Well, this bill is pretty high. A lot cheaper than the 6 million we saved you, right? All right, all right.”

Yeah, exactly. That's an example of somebody who's – they've been targeted, they've had issues, and then they come and they look for mitigation against it and they work with us. That's a very common trend that we'll see. We'll speak to a lot of our customers and they'll say, “No, we know our carriers, we know where they stop and we know the issues that they might have.” Then when you actually start getting visibility into that and you start detecting events, you see that there's a lot more risk than you never really thought.

Yeah. It's that you don't know what you don't know. I have a former sales VP, basically from the 80s that would preach that. Unfortunately, the amount of people I talked to that wasn't him, who would say those things and basically what you just said, really drove that. I thought, I'm like, “Man, you're just using cliches.” The more you talk to different perspectives and you're like, “Yeah, it really is that.” Is that an awkward conversation as you're talking to a client that says, “No, we're really good. We're here. We're safe. We're safe.” Then you're like, “Yeah, you know those three spots you thought you were safe? We see about an 80% uptick in an event happening there.” Is that an awkward conversation where you have to be like, “No, you're wrong”? Or is it more like, “Oh, okay. I really don't know much”?

No, definitely I wouldn't say it's an awkward conversation at all. I think, usually when they're engaging with us and working with us, that's the thing that they want to see if they can –

Say, there's a certain level of understanding that you're going to know more than them. Otherwise, why would they be talking to you, right? Okay. That's fair.

Yeah. Because it could be relationships that they've had for a long time and they haven't had issues, and they do trust that partner they're working with, but we're just identifying that they're being put into more risk, or your cargo is being put up more risk. Just the tweaks and changes can sometimes protect against any future issues.

With the rise of AI on both the good and the bad side and it's – I have a question. Are we seeing, and this is from both the low tech and the high tech, are we seeing more events within the logistics industry, no matter what that is at the shipper side, the double broker side, someone grabbing a whole container, just open it up and grabbing what they want, are there more now, or is it just we're reporting and more visible on them and we're all talking more as a community about it? Or, is it actually there's a larger number of these events happening today than say, five years ago?

No, there's a larger number happening for sure. Between 23, 24, I think there was a 50% increase from year-to-year. I don't have the numbers for 2025, but we've seen that that trend is continuing.

It’s okay. We'll wait till you get those numbers. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. Why? Why is it growing?

I mean, there's quite a few reasons. I mean, the changing technology, so the marketplaces, the options they have now to be able to turn something around economic conditions, widening income gaps, things like that that can help them get things out the door quicker than they would before. There's a number on that where its criminals can get 80 cents on the dollar now. Whereas in the past, we'd seen them get 40 cents on the dollar. I think that there's a lot. Some of our intel team would say, less effective court systems, decreased law enforcement spend a lot of contributing factors to it.

Yeah. No, as you say, it's funny, because I asked the question a few times when this comes up, but as you say, those like, yup, those all make sense to make this perfect storm. Within that, are the carriers and the people that you are working with, is it something where when you haven’t – I was just talking to someone recently within this AI about ransomware attacks. Is that something that Overhaul is involved in as part of that defense for logistics and supply chain? Or that's a little more on the server, their tech side, you're more worried about the goods and the things moving?

Yeah. We wouldn't be as directly involved in the ransomware on their tech side. Speaking of how gen AI can make things easier, we have developed a tool for our intel team called RiskGPT News.

Okay.

It's basically just a gen AI web scraper. How it works is that we have information around our customer’s network, who they're working with. You're able to tailor and filter that into any of the actors that are involved in this network that we might have any concerns about, continuously looking and scraping for any information, so that if we do see something pop up around breaches, or issues, or something hits Twitter, or any of the social medias, then being able to pull that in and add that to our risk detection.

That's awesome. Tell me a little bit more about this Risk GPT News. Thank you for using Twitter, because nobody likes X.

That was a choice.

Yeah. It always is. Is this something as you describe it, it sounds really cool. Is it you setting up almost a bot, or an agent of something scraping, but specifically for each of your customers? Like, customer A has RiskGPT bot news bot A and then other one has C, but C is looking at Atlanta and the East Coast, because that's where they operate, but A is on the west, so they're looking at the LA ports and Arizona? Or, is it you're taking all of your different customers and everything it can scrape and then you have something out? How does that work? Because I see value in both of them, but I'm curious, because I want to know a little more.

Yeah. Actually, we use it in both ways.

Good answer.

The other way where we're searching out everything is that internally for our intel team.

Okay.

Let's say, the way that intelligence would have worked 10 years ago is they're manually going to some of the websites where they know they can get some of those news information, they're copy pasting, taking some keywords. Really, we looked at that process and looking –

The tech equivalent of getting a bunch of newspapers and magazines and cutting them out and then putting them on a bulletin board with the yarn, looking like a mad man. Yeah. It's a little easier than that now.

Yeah. We really looked at, well, how can we help accelerate the work that our team does, have them focused on more of the important stuff, the actual analysis and investigation, while we're presenting them with data instead? The engineers on our team were able to put together searching for certain supply chain risk labels, and then tying that back into a standard format that feeds into one of our databases. Then that can just be a UI that faces our intel team. Now, they're able to see categorized and labeled all of the different incidents that can happen regionally, globally.

Then to your next point, from the customer perspective, one thing that we're always very cognizant of is that if a storm hits the East Coast of the US, but you operate fully in Europe, do you care that much about that?

Don't blow up my inbox. Yeah. Exactly. If all of a sudden, Germany has lowered their price on crepes, it's not going to affect my electronics market in Seattle.

Yeah. Yeah. What we have now, that big bucket of all the intelligence data that we've put together, then when it's something that's served to the customer, it's looking at the locations that they operate in, then the airports they use, the seaports they use, and then ensuring that if anything affects those locations, that's the information that we –

They’re getting that heads up.

- we pass that way. Yeah.

Is that coming through? Because, I mean, I always like to think of things in my head, which no one can stop me, unfortunately. Is that coming through as almost a crawler? Is this a logistics type Wall Street index coming through? Hey, look out in Atlanta. We've seen an increase in ticks. Hey, look out in Arizona with sparks in Nevada. Now that everyone's setting up there, people are jumping into warehouses. How is that coming through to people? Or is it more as like, targeted newsletter, emails, “Here, start your day with this blurb about everything that we know is happening in your world, as far as risk”?

Right now, that's only something we've recently developed and it's mainly rolled out with our internal intel team.

You're like, “Slow down, Patrick. All right, we don't have it all figured out. Come on, man.”

Yeah. No, but that is something that we've obviously thought about. I think how we'd like to serve that initially is just in a newsfeed way of doing it. When you’re logged in at Overhaul, being able to go to that and see. Then, there's also the thought that as you're looking at the – let's say, you're looking at a shipment, or you're looking at your network, lighting up any of the areas and then seeing. To caveat, that's something there that's a little further down the line, but working on now, it's called Atlas. That's the aggregated network visibility view of the world. That's something we see RiskGPT News feeding into the light up.

I like that. Is that named after the idea of Atlas for the world, or the guy carrying the world on his shoulders?

Yeah. I can think of that.

Overhaul is holding this up, right?

Absolutely. It’s placing security world on our shoulders.

I like that.

Yeah. I think every single mapping company out there has called something Atlas at some point. That's the code name right now. We may change it in the future.

That's perfectly okay. I'm sure that as long as you're not in a room where development can see you, then you aren't getting too many dirty stares for talking about all the things that aren't quite out yet. I know that, because I would do that all the time. “No, no, we're working on this. Hey, by the way, development work on that.” I've said it. Now, it's real.

As these actors continue to increase and with all those different reasons, whether it's technology, socioeconomics, or just the market industry as itself, is privatization of the supply chain through tech and the protection of it the way to go? Or does Overhaul feel that there should be more done outside of what you do? Just because all of these increases in it, at a certain point, shouldn't there be a non-private answer to it, or is Overhaul stance that it doesn't matter who gets good at this, we're still going to be as good as we are for those people that talk to us?

Yeah. I mean, should there be changes from the non-private side? I think that there's a lot there that could assist with it. Obviously, we're focused on our mission and what we're doing. I think one interesting thing, again, touching on gen AI is that as more information is public and available, gen AI makes that easier to go and access. That's what we've seen with a lot of the cargo criminals now is they get more sophisticated using gen AI for pulling all the emails of the different carriers and brokers and freight forwarders and just attacking them 24/7 with emails about how they can move their loads, and looking for business and doing it under the alias of somebody else, and same with phone calls and everything. Now a lot of those carriers and brokers are just being inundated with who knows what's real and that's where we're stepping up to try and solve that.

Yeah. That's a great spot of where a lot of the issues happen that I hear. How does Overhaul help with the carrier vetting and how does tech really become a part of that?

Yeah. We've recently launched a product called CrowdWatch, and that's really targeted at that carrier vetting space and that's getting into the preventative and predictive space, as we're talking about shifting left. The idea there is that we're combining different data sets. The intelligence data set that I mentioned that we have globally years of data, as well as the scraping, but then also, a lot of the third-parity information that's available, FMCSA data, different vendors that provide some information around carriers, being able to vet bank accounts, ensure that the companies are actually legit and that that they're operating out of what would be expected by any legitimate carrier.

Right. If you Google search the address, it's just some dude's trailer on a plot of land. You're like, “That's probably not a logistics HQ for a multi-asset carrier.”

Exactly. Yeah. That's one of the hottest things right now is so much of this theft and how it's boomed has a lot of our shippers and the brokers and 3PL is really looking at how they can vet better. Working with our customers, there's been a lot of interest, because we have the data set that is unique to us in our intelligence data, but also the organic years of operational history of monitoring cargo theft and solving cargo theft.

Going back to that, maybe concept of somebody standing at the warehouse when they're entering in a carrier's information, or driver's information, that's passing through our fraud watch system. That's looking at, is that email legitimate? Is that carrier based out of a location where they would actually pick up at this pickup location? Has that carrier been in Overhaul system before and is that flagged? Gen AI is going to make it easier to pull a lot of that information and create these products. But the kinds of operational history that we have from actually solving these problems is a big differentiator for us.

Right. The data is possible to get by probably a good amount of people with the AI, but the expertise on how to use that data proactively versus after the fact of being a Captain Hindsight, “Hey, you shouldn't have done that,” is probably the real differentiator. As you were talking, one of the things I was thinking of is how this carrier vetting and it's an important thing and it's become more and more important, is this more important, less important, or the same depending on how you find your carriers? If I'm going to a load board, or if I'm just picking up the phone, or going – where is it more important? Or it doesn't matter, you're at the same risk just about everywhere, unless it's the same guy you've been working with for 20 years and he's the one picking it up and dropping it off and not changing anything?

Yeah. I think, ultimately, the established relationships and carrier vetting included is probably the best chance you're going to get. But the problem with any of the load boards, or other ways of sourcing is you always have that double brokering. It's something like 18% of shipments are double brokered. Being able to solve against that is a real challenge.

It's a higher percentage than I would have thought. I would imagine that as margins, obviously, in the logistics space is always the name of the game, and sometimes within, and sometimes they're a little bigger, but it's been not as big as some would like it. That's going to drive more people in the space to maybe not take the time and vetting and due diligence and just go for where they see there to be a perceived savings and bigger margin on the front end. Is that something you're seeing where it's like, hey, I just got to go with the cheapest and we'll see what happens, or is there more nuance to it? Am I oversimplifying?

No. We've seen in the past where maybe somebody comes back and says, “Well, that's a little too expensive, or we're not ready for that right now, and we're going to take our chances.” Then they come back to the table a few months later, because now they have a load that's been lost that would have completely been offset by the security spend. We're mainly looking after high value, high consequence goods. If there are losses, or if there's pilferages consistently across loads like that, then that starts to add up. 

With that, with something like Overhaul, is this where you're only dealing with large established shippers and carriers, or is it run the gamut of size, just because what you're carrying is what makes it important, or it's really just depending on the personality and the culture of the business of your clients? How does your client profile spread out, or is diverse?

Yeah, definitely we work with a lot of major companies, a lot of Fortune 50 companies. It does really come down to what they're looking for as well. I wouldn't say that that's the majority of our customer profile. A lot of people just do want to protect their carrier, or protect their customer relationships as well. The value of the cargo might be one thing, but the value of that relationship that you have is another thing also. Then it’s also –

That's important.

Yeah. Pharma and life sciences and the food and bev where spoilage can be an issue.

I would say, yeah, you open one of those, regardless of anything happens. The whole, everything in there is probably a suspect.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. We're not a hardware company. We integrate with all of the various IoT devices that are out there, as well as telematics, ELD, just all of the different network nodes that can exist. Regardless of the customer profile, or their size, there are solutions that can be tailored to what's right for you.

You talked a little bit about what you're doing and where some of the new products on the carrier vetting, on the RiskGPT News and possibly something called Atlas, or nothing at all that name, where is, and that's probably what? Next year, next two years of all that being flushed out. What in your mind, and it's okay, it's not you don't have a crystal ball and no one's going to hold you to it. Where are we five years from now? As you talked about, this arm race continues and maybe either finds a plateau, or a stalemate. Where are we in five years within logistics, within technology and AI and within risk management, or protection?

Five years. I mean, what could change in five years?

I'm setting you up for this one, man. No, but this is where I want to get some thought process out of it, because you sound like a smart guy and you've been in this game for a while. I want, if you have to think about the future, a little outside of just the 18-month product roadmap, what does the world look like now with how the way that things are going right now in the logistics and the supply space?

The first thing I think is that even when I started just over nine years ago, it was crazy to me how archaic some processes were. I've seen it be accelerated in more recent years, and especially now with gen AI, of the connecting the dots and pulling systems together. I do think that's going to continue and there's a lot of smart people bring a new solution here to connect dots and what we're doing as well as trying to bring that all in together for visibility, risk mitigation. I can continue to see from the technology side, greater connection across the ELDs, the telematics, even five years. I know we said this 10 years ago, but will we get to autonomous trucks being able to move things? That's not going to change from a risk or security perspective, because you're still going to want to track when monitor, monitor those movements.

You've probably just changed where the risk comes from. No longer do you have as much social engineering as a problem with a non-driver carrier going out there. Now, you have so much more tech risk of what happens when someone takes over the system, or the controls, or the very least, tells the system tracking it somewhere else and it's completely off the rails. No, and I like that your point and it's something that I've dealt with, because when I started in the industry four years ago, still archaic, not everybody, but as a person going and calling on and trying to talk about and sell TMS, you still got people just excel in phone call. I even talked to a few people that just notebooking that thing down on the triplicate paper. So, that way they've got copies of it.

Do you think that logistics continues to be a bit in this catch up the tech space, like we have been, that redheaded stepchild, or a certain point, are we at a place where people across the industry and outside the industry are realizing how core supply chain is to everything, so we can no longer just, hey, it goes A to B. What more do you need as far as tech from that?

I think it's catching up. I think it'll continue to catch up. Will it ever be at the absolute forefront along with maybe some of the more traditional tech?

Once we get to the shipment to space. Yes. Exactly.

Yeah. There you go. I think it's going to continue to close that gap. I think people are in the lot during COVID around just how important everybody felt, that impact.

Yeah. Why can't I get my stuff? What's happening there? Oh, the truck driver is important to get it there. Okay. Got it. They come off a boat? I thought that just showed up at the store naturally.

Exactly. I think people have been more tuned into it around a lot of the tariff conversation as well. I think because, yeah. I'm okay to say that. Yeah. They do –

Absolutely. It's real. It's very real.

They do. I think that there is a lot more sensitivity and understanding now around everything that goes into it. I think since COVID, I've seen an emergence of a lot more tech companies that are coming, moving into the space, looking to solve those problems, highlighting issues that COVID brought up, as well as us having to adapt and look at that as well where we can implement change and where we can improve security, because security was a huge issue during COVID as things got more scarce.

Yeah. That's an understatement. I like that. This will be a bit of a bias and shameless plug here. Overhaul is it's doing this technology and this supply chain analysis for its management and even active protection. Is that completely off on its own, or is that integrating in with other tech pieces that the shipper, carriers, 3PLs, or the manufacturers are using? Bonus points for you if you use Banyan TMS in your answer.

We have worked with companies, just Banyan's TMS.

There it is. Ting-ding.

There it is. Yeah. Everything that we do from an event generation point of view, or any of the intelligence that we derive from our system, we look at positioning that in a way that it can be shared from a data product perspective, so on a dashboard, on the UI, but also from an API perspective. Being able to integrate into TMSs, such as Banyan's and being able to integrate directly into our customers networks as well, ERPs, WMSs, QMSs, so that any of the information that they want to receive and maybe feed in and put up against their own data is accessible to them.

Okay. All right. I like the answer. You get bonus points. That's especially for the acronym of TMS, WMS and a few other one drop. I like that. Going to a little bit more on the, I'll say fun, because it's fun to ask. It definitely probably wasn't fun for somebody out there. But what was the most memorable event that you've witnessed, or tracked, or someone when you're in the tech support days called you, what's the craziest thing you've been party to within the supply chain protection awareness that you're doing at Overhaul in the past nine years?

I feel like I've maybe gotten a little numb to it now, but I think –

Yeah. That's why I'm asking as an outsider. You're going to be like, “Oh, it's just another day and then even this happened.” I'll be like, “What?” Yeah. Yeah. Think like you're an idiot like me, looking inside to something I don't know anything about, but I can imagine nine years of hearing event, event, event, you're going to be a little numb to that.

Yeah. Actually, the answer is easy and it's the first time we engaged law enforcement and they recovered a load that was stolen, because how we capture photos of the tractor, the trailer, the information, we store that in our system. Then when we detected that there was an event, understood that the load had been stolen, we shared that information with law enforcement. We were able to work with law enforcement as they're looking at the photos in our application, tracking the data in our application to recover a load. The first time that happened, it was all eyes on and it was very exciting. For me, that's probably the most memorable moment is that first one.

With that, I like that obviously, like you were saying, you're getting numb after a bit, but the first one is going to be impactful. Does the value of the container hit in your head a little bit? Like, oh, sure, you're protecting it all, but the excitement will change a little based on that. As you're doing and helping this when they get them, are you high-fiving and putting the cigarettes out, like the Apollo 11 just got lifted off the ground?

We definitely celebrate every one that we recover. Ideally, nothing gets stolen, nothing gets pilfered.

Perfect world. You're so good. You never have to get to the party for getting it back, right? Or finding it.

Exactly. That's just never going to be the case for something like that. We definitely celebrate every one that happens. Sorry, I can't remember the first part of your question.

It was just the value of what's in the event changed the level of anxiety, or – I would assume from a company answer, it's always been, no, you're getting the same level of across the board. But from a personal level, as you're the one going, “Crap, this dot just fell off, and that was a big one,” is that like, “Aah.” You’re sweating? Like, somebody just said, you have to press the nuke button and the phones aren't working anymore?

Honestly, I don't really think about the value. I would be on the company side of whenever anything gets stolen, there's that. I'm going to keep my eye looking at what the team is doing, until we know whether it's gotten back or not. I think we have a 90%, 99% recovery rate.

That's awesome.

That's something that –

You got to lead with that next time. You got to put that in the elevator pitch, John. Come on. 

Well, I hope all of your listeners stay to the end.

We'll put that as a blurb at the beginning of why they should listen. Not just because John almost has as nice as hair as me, but they have a 99% recovery rate, which is amazing in anything. As we're winding down here, and just, like I said, I know how long people can listen to my voice, so I have a nice internal clock on it, what’s your message, John, to the world, either as who you are in Overhaul, from an industry perspective, talking on AI, or just from you personally to anyone that might be listening? Here's my platform, soapbox. What's your message?

I think my message just maybe to get the point across of where I think Overhaul can provide value in this space and what we bring to the table is we are a forward-thinking technology company and we do use all of the nodes and data points that exist. When it comes to gen AI, I think people might sometimes think it's ahead of where it is in terms of being able to rely on it for decisions. But it's as bad today as it ever will be. It's only going to get better. We look to build that into every facet of what we're doing now, so that we can continue to profit from the development of gen AI and GPT over the years.

From a fraud detection point of view, nobody has a database that exists like us, from the historical thefts, pilferages, the recoveries that we've had and the incidents that we've seen. As we continue to implement these AI tools and as we continue to automate the solution that we have, then I think we're in a really unique position to continue to deliver the best security service across supply chain that we can.

Great answer. Great answer. I like that one. No, and I really do. Giving you a chance to get a plug in here, who is listening to this should go and find out more about Overhaul? If not Overhaul, maybe something similar, just so we're not completely just driving them, but I want them to talk to Overhaul. Where should they go as a first step? Is it, “Hey, I'm new to the business and I'm worried about it, or I haven't had an event.” Who, that's listening right now should take action and where should they go? Other than go get a Banyan TMS, of course.

Aside from the after they've got a Banyan TMS, then they can find us on LinkedIn, Overhaul, and we also have our over-haul.com marketing site, where that can take you through to any of our team that will assist. You know what? Carrier vetting, it's a hot topic right now. I think anybody who is looking for assistance in that area could benefit from our fraud watch platform. Then anyone who is just looking at risk mitigation, be it from cargo theft, spoilage, delays, that is what we do best. The broad answer, but it's the right answer.

Ah, no. Whether or not they were hard answers, I don't know if that's an answer, a broad answer, or not, they were good answers, Jonathan. Don't be hard on yourself. This was great. No. Thank you very much for talking to me. Thank you for talking about some of your tech tools and that risk and that protection, and that management. For everybody listening, watching or just happen to find this in the weirdest rabbit hole you've gone in on the Internet in a while, if you're not in logistics space, this is Patrick Escolas with Banyan Technology’s Tire Tracks with another one of our installments of the impact of AI and freight procurement. I've had Jonathan Ryan of Overhaul. Ryan, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here.

Thank you. It was awesome. I appreciate it. Thank you.

I love to have you on again. For anybody that's still around, make sure you subscribe, engage, tell me how good it was, tell me how bad it was, whatever, we want to hear from you. We're happy that you're listening at all and watching on. Thanks for being here. All right. Have a great one, everybody.