Hey, everybody. It's Patrick Escolas with the Banyan Technology‘s Tire Track Podcast. Today with me, I have Jason Steinke of RIM logistics. How you doing, Jason?

I'm doing great, Patrick. How about yourself?

I'm doing great. I'm glad to see you're smiling again. I mean like, man, he heard me talking. Now, he's not so into it. No, but Jason, first off, we got to get the elephant out of the room. Michigan in the background. I'm an Ohio boy. Didn't go to Ohio State myself. Went to OU, where we major in partying. Then we let the football happen in Columbus. A Michigan alum, I assume?

I'm not an alum. Just a die-hard fan, since eight-years-old, believe it or not.

I always got to ask, how do you become a Michigan fan? Is it hereditary, or was it just circumstantial?

Circumstantial. I grew up in an Irish family and it was Notre Dame-Michigan game. I didn't like the Irish family on that day, so I chose Michigan from eight years forward.

As a person whose middle name is O'Leary and whose grandparents are off the boat, I have never been more aligned with somebody. I never liked rooting for Notre Dame, even though they were the Irish. I think Rudy was off sides. I think, if you put the names on the back of the jerseys, can't be that good. All right –

Pretty sure.

- not too much hate from anyone who's watching this, but all in good fun. No, but Jason, in all seriousness, what I always like to start is, how did you get into logistics? What are you doing now? The reason I ask is that everybody seems to either have one of three paths. Either you're born into it, you found it randomly, or you started as your first job and never let go. What was it for you?

Yeah. Started as my first job and never let go. Too fast, it's funny. In college, I worked in Dean's Ice Cream, which is now Dairy Farmers of America.

Yeah, I know Dean‘s. Yeah.

Yeah. I worked in the cooler, 30 below, snowmobile suit, picking orders for grocery stores, like Kroger's, Jewel, all the major brands, loading the trucks. I had no idea that life was going to lead me down this. Then I graduate college, and I had a buddy working in this industry and he's like, “Hey, I know it's a warehousing job. But I think this company is going to be amazing. This industry is amazing. Would you like to come work? And, oh, it's 6.30 at night till 3.30 a.m.” Well, coming out of college, I'm like, that was a schedule.

I was going to say, that's okay.

Sleep in and then go. That's how it all got started. 30 years later, haven't looked back.

As a former pizza delivery driver who lived that life. And there's something about getting off at 3.30 a.m. or 2 a.m. where you should be tired, but in fact, no matter how tired you are before you clock out, there's another four to five hours before you go to bed. Yeah.

For sure. For sure.

You really get to see some fun stuff that people don't realize exists in those hours.

Exactly. Yup.

Yeah. Hey, give me a little bit, for anyone that hasn't heard of RIM, which is I'd be hard pressed within our industry. What are you doing with RIM and what is RIM logistics doing right now?

Yeah. I'm the executive vice president. I wear a lot of hats. But for the purpose of today, really, product design and technology are two of the hats and two of the teams I have. RIM today is really focused on driving supply chain solutions, whether that's on a domestic US, Canada, Mexico front, or globally. We historically, our revenues have been more on the international side. We are born on international. But we've really put a great deal of effort and time into being more around North America transportation and what a lot of people refer to as domestic over the last five years.

Yeah. You might have alluded to it a bit there before we get more into where AI and technology takes a place. What is the reason for the shift, or maybe just the addition from international to more the domestic space? Is it a sign of the times and reacting to the market, or is it an internal goal? What does that look like for RIM and why they're trying to play in a bigger space than you were already playing in?

We really got into the warehousing side of things back in the early 2010s. Coupled with that, became this need to get the goods delivered off of our dock, right? It used to be a lot more B2B back then. It's certainly become B2C at this point.

The Amazon effect.

Yeah. We had a lot of freight coming off our dock going to the US, Canada, and Mexico and we said, listen, let's try to expand this. Then when COVID hit, near sourcing became – meaning towards the tail end of COVID, people really realized that they had to do more with near sourcing, diversify their supply chain. We had a head start, particularly working with Banyan and we partnered up during COVID. We decided to continue to invest in this product and make it a core part of our business. 

Now, when you talk about the supply chain aspect, not just the international versus domestic and the warehousing makes sense, that I here of many 3PLs that are big enough to expand in the space. What drives that thought process? Especially with technology, is it because technology has gotten to a point? Or is it more of, hey, we can provide additional value? What comes first, the chicken, or the egg?

The customer comes first.

Yeah, there you go. Good answer. Write that one down.

Yeah. The customer really started asking more of us, right? We’re like, “Listen, we don't want to farm this out to your warehouse, or we don't want to farm out. We want to take into your warehouse from the international you're already doing.” Or so, as we got deeper with our customers, and I like to – one of the reasons I've remained at RIM for as long as I do is I like to use the sentence, “We love deep,” right? We don't need 10 million customers. We need customers that we can love deep with. If you're going to love –

The account manager, and he loves that. Yeah, I'm not dialing new numbers. I'm just making people like me more, man.

That's right. That's right. That's really, it wasn't so much the chicken and the egg, as it was the ask, right? We continue to get more ask and we wanted to do it really well for our customers. We didn't just want to say, hey, wake up one day and be like, “Let's invest in a TMS and let's invest in this product and just send a bunch of salespeople out there and see how we could do.” It's been really to help us with the existing customer. Now, we do sell the businesses to stand alone.

Okay. Within that, as you were saying, you're getting stuff off your dock, you're getting things in international and going against what used to be the NAFTA countries there. Who knows if that's still a thing? Is that something where just nature of the beast, you're doing all these modes? Would this something that you had, you and your teams had to go learn some different modes? How did technology play a role in that, where in the past it was, “Crap. We got to go find a guy that knows LTL like the back of their hand, or we need a domestic last mile guy that's just on it.” How do you go from maybe you're playing in two or three sandboxes to, hey, we need to know how this playground works. We need to know what's happening at the library. How does technology get to that? How is it still growing? How are you still learning, or maybe adapting?

Yeah, that's an awesome question. I'm going to try to talk my way around that.

That's why they let me talk. It's not the hair. It's the brains that burned it all off.

There you go. I love that. That's what's happening in my forehead, I guess.

It's too much heat, man. You got to let it air out.

We've had an interesting journey. I've had an interesting personal journey related to this specific question. I come from this older school of we got to go get the person and we're operationally focused and right hands on and technology was always trying to catch up, right?

Especially in the logistics in the past. If the tech works, it'll find its way there. If it doesn't, we've still got a truck and we've still got a phone. We'll figure it out.

Exactly. Exactly. I think you could still find people that tell you the same thing today, right?

Sure.

Then, come into this mid-2010s, which to me is in the 2015 era, right?

Yup.

We started to really become tech forward. Meaning, we found companies that were very tech savvy, had a lot of great ideas. We probably overbought technology at that point in our company, because we thought we were smart and we were getting ahead and all these solutions were out there.

That can't be a unique situation either, especially on that time.

Yeah, I don't know how many people admit it. I'll admit it, right?

That's a great skill right there.

Yeah. We get into COVID and really, we were work from home for a little bit. Not our warehouses, but everybody else was. It really came out that we needed this balance between human, trained human, training humans and technology, right? One wasn't going to exist without the other. I would tell you today, the blend, kept going back sort of the answer to the question, right? It's really a blend of unique technology is going to continue to evolve. I think it has caught up in supply chain, to your comment a couple of minutes ago. I think you also still have to train people on how this business works and be engaged with one another. If you can figure out the magic in between those two, it's an amazing industry to be in, and an amazing field to work in.

We talk about that melding and bringing people in. What was RIM seeing maybe before the rise of AI and some of the technologies that are really coming to, if not ahead, but have really carved themselves out to be effective? What changes in either who you're looking for to hire, or the onboarding process as a whole? Because as I've talked about here, not just on the AI aspect, but we as an industry are losing these 30, 35-plus people that just have all this tribal knowledge, and you're replacing them with, and nothing against it, because I was this guy, wet, fresh off the street, either new degree in hand with a student loan that they're like, “All right, I better go pay this thing off.” Or someone that you're just like, “Hey, I'm willing to work and do anything, but you got to tell me what that anything's going to be.” How does technology and AI change that for you and at RIM?

Yeah. I don't have the perfect answer yet. I don't think the AI is there where people often advertise it to be, right? It's not a slam on people developing AI companies at all. I think if you're going to take it into this industry and really use it on a day-to-day basis, and Patrick, you might see this yourself, or experience this yourself. It's not like, you're just going to throw the keys down and let the AI take over. I mean –

Yeah. It's like you said, it's got to be a blending, and very much nothing against anyone hawking AI, or singing its praises. You're believing the hype where you're thinking of it at the most optimistic level, whereas logistics, no matter how optimistic you are, really lives in the what actually happened.

It is. For sure. Yup. I think the 35-year-old, or tenured employee for the conversation, I think there's a place, because we need to figure out how we're going to make maybe machines grow, or partially use a machine to help us. I don't think that's going anywhere anytime soon. We've certainly had our failures at RIM with AI. We were early adopters, meaning going back six years, seven years now, since we started dabbling into really more optical scanning, things like that, but trying to route it into a system –

Makes sense. Yeah.

- and pair it for recognition. It's evolving. Again, it's getting better, but it's not there.

Starts with minimizing the keystrokes and then evolves to, how do you learn our process. Yeah. No, that makes sense. With that is you're going to get, here's why I should ask, where does visibility and security play into that? Because these are words, obviously, that we could have thrown around for the past 25 years and still been relevant. Here, we're still talking about it, and there's still more demand for both. How is technology playing a role in that? How is RIM offering more than five years ago?

For sure. Yeah, I think visibility is probably the most exciting thing relating to AI, right? I think, there have been people out there in the space for five to 10 years, really focused on getting freight forwarders and their customers' data on where the goods are at. Because people are hiring us in the middle. They want to know, where are my goods? What does it cost? That's what it really is about.

The freight forwarders aren't always happy to give that information to you. They're like, “No, no, no, man. You pay us and you'll get it.” Right?

Yeah.

How do you get that when the people involved aren't always willing to share historically, but now you want to offer a seamless product to the customer.

That's right. Global.

Yeah.

In a warehouse, in a domestic space, in an international space, where's it at? I want to look at one place and find it, right?

Yeah.

We've spent a lot of time answering part B of your question. We spent a lot of time in that space in data aggregation, data quality, working with some AI tools to bring in that global data. Banyan is part of that. We get great data tracking visibility. Where are things? Answering that question.

That's two pluses to Banyan. I'll be keeping track. Yeah.

That’s right. I'm trying to earn another one. I was going to talk about Michigan-Ohio state more.

Oh, there we go. Heck, yeah.

The security piece, right? Just so I make sure I complete that. I think security is still something that isn't as prevalent as you and I would think. I think for, if I'm moving these guys, right? Probably, the security is a big thing. I think there's other companies that haven't really gone out and looked at the securities in depth as it needs to be, right? In my opinion, from the inner workings, there's a lot of opportunity to be more secure on where your freight is and what's going on.

Is there an assumption that depending on your industry, we're risk adverse, because, hey, no one's going to walk off with a container full of steel. But that's not always accurate. It seems, like you said, if I'm shipping cellphones, obviously, I'm going to be aware that somebody wants these. They have street value. There's probably relevance to security across the board, even if it doesn't seem common sense for a resale value, or someone to grab a load of it. What would you say to someone that's saying, “Hey, man. This really isn't that thing that people want.” Why are you telling them they should be secure? What are some of those pieces that you're thinking it is more important than they might have considered?

Yeah. I think, I mean, the deterrent is cost, right? People are like, “Oh, I don't want to pay an extra $50 for my container to have a GPS device in it, for my steel, because nobody's going to steal my steel, right?”

Sure.

I'm not sure that that is as relevant. To your point, I think it's like, hey, I think there are a lot of opportunities for people to look at that. The technology is out there, in my opinion. I think people just like, ah, it moves safely all the time. It's not a problem. To your point of the original question, I think it is something that it's going to rise in the next five years, because you have all these different things hopping, crossing borders, right? Geo-political wars, drug cartels, not to be negative, right? How do you become more secure?

Especially near sourcing, just for this relevance of this topic today, right? We're going to do a lot of trade with Mexico, I think. We already are. Security, every time somebody wants to talk to us, the first thing, one of the first things they ask is, how do we become more secure with crossing the border, right?

Yeah. I think that's not going to go any away anytime soon. Within that, and back to a point I made before, and I think it's relevant to near-shoring, because after you get those big pieces out, then there's a lot more LTL and parcel coming across. Why the convergence now is that's just part of the reaction to the e-commerce piece and going B2C, instead of B2B. What is RIM doing to be in there and be in front of it? And/or what do you see that's going to continue happening, or maybe change from where we've been post-COVID to now, finding a new normal with the rise of AI and with the current markets?

That's a great question.

That's right. Yeah. No softballs here.

No softball. Fastball down the middle. No, that's curveball. No, really. To start with the question, I think people are trying to have less inventory, right? Or at least before this tariff situation occurred, right?

That's a great big picture answer. I'll let you get into detail. But as soon as you said it, I'm like, “Yup. That's a good checkbox.” Please, continue.

Yeah. I think that was phase one. I think the battle has always been, how do I really figure out what the best mode is? Is it more parcel? Can I do this LTL and then spread it out? Or does that ultimately lead to longer lead times and more delivery charges? I think, again, one of the things we work out with Banyan, here's three, right, is really some of the tool sets that our customers are most excited about in the last six to 12 months are like, “Oh, you can help me figure that out. You can help me figure out a parcel and LTL our butter, right?” We haven't seen that before, before you. We have customers that are generally utilizing that and been excited about that.

I think in the past, it's been extremely laborious to try to figure out on a daily, or weekly, or monthly basis for a factory or shipper which one's better, right?

You want me to look back at a month? I got two more months coming up of things I got a move. I got last weeks to figure out where they are, man.

Yeah. You got it.

I think that organically brings me to, where is the value in the 3PL now, versus where it was and where RIM specific? Are you trying to position yourself even more? Since we're talking technology and AI, how does that fit into the whole game?

Yeah. I think the value for us is just to continuously have conversations with customers around where pain points are, or how are they growing their business? A lot of times, I'd go out with a lot of salespeople. This is how we were trained. I used to be in sales. You were trained to be like, “Hey, talk to me about what hurts. What are your pain points?” I think, today, the conversation for us has been more like, hey, how are you trying to grow your business? What do you want that to look like?

It's a more optimistic conversation. It's not, “Man, why does your leg hurt?” It's like, “Wow, can't you imagine how awesome you'd be driving a new Corvette?”

Exactly.

One of those ones you want to talk about a little more. 

For sure. For sure. I think if you engage in that upstream, and then people start thinking like, “Oh, if I bring this product in, how fast can I turn it? What are my sales channels?” Oh, if I do all of a sudden, we're in this new space influencer market, right? Products go out to an influencer. if they catch fire. How do you actually catch fire with the influencer? Ship it. One thing to get it all online. How do you ship it, right?

You catch it fire. Now you got a couple of bunch of people that didn't know your name, and now they want it yesterday. You don't want to do it bad, because they're going to jump on whatever platform and be like, “Man, I thought I wanted this –”

That's right.

“And it’s 3,000 days.” Exactly. Great point.

The retail parcel comes into that influencer market, because if something catches fire, it could all sudden be half a truckload, or it could be a thousand parcels going all over the place. That type of measure really comes into play in this.

No, that's a great point. What I was going to ask, and I think you answered part of it, is the want to grow and scale, not that it wasn't there before. Is it more achievable or realistic because of the rise in technology and companies are looking at it more? Whereas, before, man, I'd have to hire 40 more people. Now, it's like, I can hire a team of five more, plus if I've got this software in this, I can still scale. Why are we talking about scaling, or at least using the word more than we might have in the past now, versus I'll say, pre-COVID just because the world looked a lot different?

I think there is certain specific pieces that you can scale and grow today, May 13th, 2025.

Yeah.

I still think there's a human element in at least in relation to supply chain and logistics that you're going to have to grow the team, right?

It's a way to shake throat to choke. One way or another, you want you want someone to take accountability, or someone that you say, “Hey, you go be my guy and make sure it is what you said it's going to be.”

That's right. That's right. I think automation has come in. We don't have 100 people doing track and trace anymore.

No, you don't want someone spending time and sending an update every 10 minutes. One of 150 different customers are moving that day. Yeah. No, that makes sense.

Yeah. That's a big thing. I think accounting things, right? How we get our bills, how we get the bills to the customer, more automation is around there than ever before. Those types of things are scaling. I still think, there's still that human element of people have different needs. Those orders, right? Those shipments, they're different often every day.

100%.

They don't just fit into a box that says, “Oh, AI, go figure this out.” Then, there is AI components to help, but it doesn't pull the trigger.

Sure. It's not Tetris every time. Yeah, you're not just, “No. I can fit this LPs anywhere.” Yeah. No, that's a great point.”

I use the Tetris thing.

I love it. I worked at UPS for a bit and I got to use those Tetris skills. I still tell my wife, “Don't pack. I got this. I'll make it fit. I don't care how it doesn't fit on the driveway. I'll get it in there.”

Love them.

Yeah. I think that's a dad skill you got to have. Otherwise –

For sure.

Otherwise, you got a hand in the card. No. But with that, I think that, or I know that a common element in everybody I talk to, whether it's on personal calls, work calls, or the podcast is the human element and the relationship. With more AI, is the relationship going to be less important, or more important specifically? Where could that shift? I get, we already talked about, you don't need your guy manually sending out all the updates. Where is it important that you still have a person, versus the AI relaying the news, or having the conversation?

Yeah. I think to, again, I'm one person with an opinion, right? I still think –

In logistics, that's all everybody is and nobody within the industry doesn't have an opinion and no one's afraid to tell you. It’s why I love it.

Yeah, for sure. I think really, the relationship still exists is how am I going to help you grow your business, right? How can I facilitate that? AI is not going to do it. If I punch that into ChatGPT today, how do I grow my business? I can get the answer.

It's going to give me the most generic things you've ever heard like, “Oh, I should sell more. Thank you. Thank you so much.” Yeah.

That's right. That's right. I do think it can help figure out paths forward. It can help with marketing material and little bits and pieces. But yeah, the relationship still trying to grow business, instead of trying to heal your leg as you talk to others. That is critical. In order to do that, you can't just come in and have zero knowledge. I can't just walk in and be an empty suit. I got to walk in and I’ve got to be able to say, “Look, I've got these technologies. I have these partners. I have these solutions. It's a menu. You don't have to be a Tetris piece that exactly fits in. Let me help you out with that.” That also comes with the love deep philosophy, right? “Let me really wrap my arms around and help you.”

Then, yeah, because, I mean, you're a large 3PL. If you're not providing this consulting value, then what differentiates you at all from anyone off the street that says, “I can ship things. Don't ask questions.”

Exactly. Exactly. Go ahead, please.

No, I was going to say that, we call that shipping A to B. I don't even know if that exists anymore. I mean, does that happen?

I mean, yeah, the one off, right? That's not who you're investing your long term, in and out every day relationship with. I think with that. I use that a lot. I got to find a better transition. As we talk about the human element and the technology and even RIM’s shift and approach and modes and with the world constantly changing, especially within logistics, how does regulation come into play? Are we looking at things with more regulatory eyes? Is it just because of COVID, logistics came more into the spotlight, because everybody needed their toilet paper, everybody saw the long lines at the port? Then on top of that, just with regulation, where does sustainability hit in all of that?

I had somebody on the other day. Trains, very sustainable, but you don't necessarily can go the train the whole route, because you might need someone who doesn't have a train track, or don't want to be one of 72 cars pulled by an engine there. Where does regulation and sustainability hit in this new world and the goals for RIM?

Regulation today, I mean, our compliance with regulatory team is all about –

You’re like, “Whatever they tell us we have to do, we're doing it.” Yeah.

It's all about tariffs, right? Like this. They're like, “You’re on fire.”

There it is. There's the T word. I wasn't going to say it. You said it first.

I'm living it, right? They're like, “What do you mean regulation? It's about tariff changes at the moment.” But if you really think that through, it's part of what any regulatory group that's shipping, importing, exporting, doing freight forwarding, they've got to be aware of the tariff situation and the regulation. Regulation, overall, it is a different hot topic on a regular basis and you've just got to stay on top of it.

I think this tariff situation is more catcher's myth than being proactive, right? What's coming at me? I've got to catch it and I've got to be able to help the customers, help myself, help anybody involved in that.

Right. I think there is a lot of regulation. We did learn in COVID, really, about how to do that. Kudos, I've worked closely with, I'll call Homeland Security, because it's overarching TSA, US Customs, all that. I think they've really stepped up their game in terms of being more technology-driven, more forward, more community engaged than they were 10, 15 years ago and that helps all of us.

That's a necessary reaction. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. For sure. Sustainability is interesting, right? If I go over to our offices in Europe, or engage with them, it's at the top mark. I think –

That’s right.

- there are certain customers and industries here in North America that it's very important to, and then there's other places and parts of the geography that it's less important to.

It goes back to that cost, right? It's the goal and the perception versus cost.

100%, right? We are asked, and I know you are asked often to be like, what's your position on sustainability and what you're doing? What can you offer me for?

Then you go, “What’s yours?” Yeah.

Exactly. What do you want to spend?

Yeah, exactly. We can do whatever you want to do, and just slide the scale up. Is that a difficult landscape to play in from international European to North American? Because like you said, there's a big difference in ideology within that space.

We try very hard to keep it merged together, but there are times where we have to make sure that we're making the European entities happy, so to speak, or fruitful in terms of what they're doing, which is different from North America, which is different from the Asia, or APAC team, right? That’s just part of us being global.

It comes back to being deep, right?

That's right.

It comes back to being deep and understanding that relationship. Now there, I'll put that one in for you right there.

Appreciate that.

You've got the name RIM and you're talking about going deep. The words don't make sense there. No.

I'll come up with a different word.

That's right. That's just me and my brain. Don't pay to that in mind. As we're talking about this melding of international priorities and domestic preferences, coming back to near shoring again, and we already use the big T word, are we going to get more into near shoring? How is that reaction going to look? Here's the bottom-line question. What is technology doing to help that? Is it because I'm trying to come over here? I can use technology to figure out where I should set up shop. Or is it in just learning a new place that I was never before?

Yeah. I think 100% near shoring is a thing and it has been a thing coming out of COVID. It's just accelerating at the moment with the T word, right? There were people coming out of 22, 23, seriously like, “We're going to do more of this.” Not everything, but we're going to make changes and they did. I think technology can work in a couple of different ways. One, if you really understand where your customers were shipping to, right, you can pull the metrics on that and be like, “Listen, I need to have warehouses, or I need to have the best pricing to ship to these particular. This is where I'm heavy. Can I do full truckloads? Can I do consolidated loads, things like that?” There's also technology.

I have to say, look at Sparks, Nevada, a place no one ever heard of before, and then everybody from the East Coast and the Midwest is going, “I have West Coast customers on your warehouse over there.”

That’s right. Yeah. The warehouse mecca out there.

That's right. That's right. I just imagine, it's like the great pyramids, except for a lot of flat buildings, just all over the place.

For sure. For sure. Yeah. I think you're going to see tech, because we're engaged in this. Start to tell our help people understand where they can source from. It'll start to show better duty rates, better tariffs, right? You might see it. You probably will see the shift of people. If China is the most expensive, and Mexico is the least, people will just naturally spend the time and effort to start to move their sourcing in that fashion, just based on the tariff alone.

But then, I think to your point here, that is the technology the same way that you're looking back 30 days to see how you could have shipped it mode-wise. You're probably looking back, hey, if the tariff is going to be this in the upcoming 30 days, or if it was this before, and then technology can update that on the fly. You're looking for, hey, what was that pricing? Is that still relevant now?

Yup. 100%.

As we've talked about a lot of the topics, I had written down and someone else got me the topics. I'm not smart enough to bring any of that to my head myself. Where does RIM want to go? Obviously, you want to be the 3PL. You want to get deep with your current customers. Where's the future? We're already talking about the future is now in many ways with technology and AI, and what it can do. What's the next step for RIM? What's the next step for your team that are really at the edge of logistics, growing RIM as far as the modes, and using technology to get there?

Yeah. I think for us, we're now diving into vertical strategy. We've flirted with them over the past five years, and COVID took away the flirtation of that. We're very much digging into what core verticals can we be good at, or are we good at that we just haven't marketed ourselves at? What are we already doing that we can add value? You're going to see us announce some of these vertical strategies here this year. The first one's coming out in June that we’re very excited about.

The other piece is really continuing to drive this North American transportation product. We think with some of the AI that already exists, and not just AI, overall technology, analytics helping us understand where the costs are before we even execute. How do we procure trucks before we even execute? Then, how do we help people on the near shore journey, whether that's Mexico, or within the United States, or even nearby where we bring it across another border, but truck it in somewhere else.

I think the international will always be our core product offering. But this focus, we've continued to invest in people and tack on this North American transportation product, and that'll be part of that. Those vertical strategies will fit into that and play a role in that as we announce and come out with those.

You don't want to give us early breaking news on what's going on? I will get you in trouble, Jason. You're good.

It's coming soon.

There we go.

I’m hoping to get invited back. I'll share all on the next one.

That'd be perfect. Now, and here's where I let anyone use the platform here. Thank you so much for all the information and the conversation, and putting up with how boring I can be, but here's your opportunity. Talk to my platform, whether it's from Jason's perspective, from RIM's EVP perspective, or someone in logistics, or just as a kid who used to have to wear a snow suit to get ice cream scooped, or as a hater of Notre Dame. What's your message to the platform, from Jason as I offer you my soapbox?

Awesome. Well, first of all, Patrick, thanks for having me on. This is a blast. My face hurts from smiling and laughing with you. I appreciate that. Not every day is smiling and laughing like this, so it's amazing.

That's the Patrick way. There's both happiness and pain all at the same time. That's right.

Yeah. Today, my message is I know that the industry is going through some challenges with the T word. I think it's going to actually be fruitful for those of us in logistics and supply chain for the back half of this year. Hang tight. Keep looking at your technology, but also, look at your people equally. Don't think the technology is going to answer everything. But invest in it. I think the journey is really coming to an age where it's going to be really cool if you've been – whether you're coming in brand new, or you've been doing this a while like me. It's awesome.

Jason, if you ever get bored of EVPing, that off the top of the head was pretty dang good. You could host one of these podcasts and really impress 20, 25 people in episode. Jason, thank you so much.

I'm Patrick Escolas with a Banyan Technology’s Tire Tracks presentation. I hope you all listen, subscribe, watch, and any of the other things that kids tell you to do at the end of the YouTube and TikTok videos. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jason. Really appreciate having you today.

Thank you.